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27 Killed in Connecticut Shooting, Including 20 Children

Jibbles

Shit Lord, Esq.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/n...ed-at-connecticut-elementary-school.html?_r=0

A gunman killed 26 people, 20 of them children between the ages of 5 and 10, in a shooting on Friday morning at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., about 65 miles northeast of New York City, the authorities said.
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The gunman, who was believed to be in his 20s, walked into a classroom at Sandy Hook Elementary School, where his mother was a teacher. He shot and killed her and then killed 20 students, most in the same classroom. He also fatally shot five other adults, and then killed himself inside the school. One person was also injured in the shooting.

Another body related to the shooting was at another scene, the authorities said, declining to provide more specifics.

A law enforcement official identified the shooter as Adam Lanza and said that a brother, Ryan Lanza, had been questioned.

The mass shooting is among the worst in the nation’s history.

“The majority of those who died today were children, beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old,” a visibly distraught President Obama said during a nationally televised address Friday afternoon.

After pausing to compose himself for perhaps five long seconds, Mr. Obama said, “They had their entire lives ahead of them: birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own.”

Then the president wiped the corner of his eye.

Some witnesses described a harrowing scene inside the school with the sounds of gunfire followed by sounds of screams as terrified students and staff members hid in classrooms, closets or wherever they could quickly take shelter.

One 9-year-old student said he was in the gym when the shooting erupted.

“We were in the gym, and I heard really loud bangs,” said the boy, as he stood shivering and weeping outside the school with his father’s arms draped around him. “We thought that someone was knocking something over. And we heard yelling, and we heard gunshots. We heard lots of gunshots. We heard someone say, ‘Put your hands up.’ I heard, ‘Don’t shoot.’ We had to go into the closet in the gym. Then someone came and told us to run down the hallway. There were police at every door. There were lots of people crying and screaming.”

Yvonne Cech, a school librarian, said she along with two library clerks, a library catalog assistant and 18 fourth graders spent 45 minutes locked in a closet during the shootings. "The S.W.A.T. team escorted us out," she said, and then all 18 children were reunited with their parents.

Another student at the school told an NBC affiliate in Connecticut: “I was in the gym and I heard like seven loud booms, and the gym teachers told us to go in the corner and we huddled. We all heard these booming noises, and we started crying. So the gym teachers told us to go into the office where no one could find us. Then a police officer told us to run outside.”

State police said the Newtown police called them shortly after 9:30 a.m., according to Lt. J. Paul Vance of the Connecticut State Police. “On- and off-duty troopers responded to the school, and with Newtown police immediately upon arrival entered the school and began an active shooter search,” Lieutenant Vance said.

Eighteen of the students were pronounced dead at the school, and two others were taken to hospitals where they were declared dead. All the adults shot at the school were pronounced dead at the scene.

Law enforcement officials said the weapons used by the gunman were a Sig Sauer and a Glock. In addition to the two handguns, the police also found an M4 carbine at the scene that they believe belonged to the gunman.

Meredith Artley, the managing editor of CNN.com, said that someone who works at the school told her the shooting happened in the hallway. “She described it as a ‘Pop, pop, pop,'” Ms. Artley said. “She said three people went out into the hall and only one person came back, the vice principal, she said, who was shot in the leg or the foot, who came crawling back. She cowered under the table and called 911. There must have been a hundred rounds.”

As news of the shooting spread, frantic family members descended on the scene and were taken to a nearby fire house where teachers and students who had been evacuated from the school had been taken by the authorities. Some clergy members were also at the fire house.
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“The teachers wrote down the names of all the children,'’ said Monsignor. Robert Weiss, the pastor at St Rose of Lima in Newtown. “The ones who were unaccounted for, those parents went to another room and wrote their names on a list.”

“It was around, obviously,'’ he added, “the number that passed away.”

Another clergy member at the fire house, Rabbi Sholom Deitsch of Chabbad Jewish Center in Ridgefield, Conn, said, “I see a lot of fear and disbelief in peoples eyes. It’s a very difficult scene, one I’ve never seen in my life.'’

Gov. Dannel P. Malloy, who was at the scene of the shooting comforting relatives of victims, called the killings a “tragedy of unspeakable terms.'’

New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who has been a vocal advocate for gun control in the United States, issued an exasperated statement criticizing national leaders for failing to do more to stop gun violence.

“We have heard all the rhetoric before,'’ he said. “What we have not seen is leadership – not from the White House and not from Congress.”

Mr. Bloomberg waited to issue his statement until after President Obama spoke, hoping that he would hear something more specific on gun control. But he did not.

“President Obama rightly sent his heartfelt condolences to the families in Newtown,'’ Mr. Bloomberg said. “But the country needs him to send a bill to Congress to fix this problem. Calling for ‘meaningful action’ is not enough. We need immediate action.”

The school, located among wooded hills and suburban tracts in Fairfield County, 12 miles east of Danbury, serves kindergarten through fourth grade. The school has about 700 students.

“It’s just a little country school,'’ said Robert Place, 65, as he stood near the scene. “The look is very ′50s or ′60s. One floor. It’s always had a good reputation. People come to Newtown for the schools.'’

The school’s principal, Dawn Hochsprung, was reportedly one of those shot. But at the home of her daughter Cristina Hassinger, in Oakville, Conn., the family was still awaiting any news of her fate.

“We’re looking for any hope,” said Ryan Hassinger, the son-in-law of the principal.

“I looked on Twitter and it says that she is passed,” Mr. Hassinger said. But, he added, the family was “just waiting.”

Mr. Obama was briefed on the shooting at 10:30 a.m., the White House said.

“We’ve endured too many of these tragedies in these past few years and each time I learn the news I react not as a president but as anyone else would as a parent and that was especially true today,” Mr. Obama said on Friday afternoon. “I know there’s not a parent in America who doesn’t feel the same overwhelming grief that I do.”

Maureen Kerins, a hospital nurse who lives close to the school, learned of the shooting from the television and hurried to the school to see if she could help. “I stood outside waiting to go in, but a police officer came out and said they didn't need any nurses so I knew it wasn’t good,'’ Ms. Kerins said.

In front of a senior center next door to the school, a 20-year-old woman was with her 4-year-old sister, who was in the school at the time of the shooting. The older woman came to pick up her younger sister along with their mother. The girl had her arms and legs wrapped around her older sister.

When a reporter asked the woman what the little girl knew of what had happened, the woman said, “Absolutely nothing, and we don’t plan to tell her anything.”
 
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...ith-knife-at-elementary-school-gates-in-china

BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China on Friday, state media reported, the latest in a series of attacks on children in the country.


The man attacked the children at the gate of a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province, the Xinhua news agency reported.
Police arrested a 36-year-old man, identified as villager Min Yingjun, Xinhua said. It did not give further details of the extent of the injuries.
 
http://behindthewall.nbcnews.com/_n...ding-man-kills-3-kids-wounds-13-in-china?lite

Ax-wielding man kills 3 kids, wounds 13 in China

An ax-wielding man burst into a day care center in China and attacked the children inside, killing three and wounding another 13 before police subdued him.
The incident took place Friday in China’s southern province of Guangxi.

Wounded children — some severely injured — were rushed to local area hospitals. Police who arrived at the scene were able to disarm the man and arrest him.
Police were still investigating the motivation behind the attack.
Violent incidents against children are not rare in mainland China. In the past two years, a string of attacks at schools and day care centers involving lone attackers rattled the country, culminating with a series of three consecutive school attacks that took place over a three-day period in 2010.
In one of the incidents, Xu Yuyuan, 47, entered a Jiangsu province school in April 2010 and stabbed 29 children and three teachers. Xu told a court the next month that he wanted to "vent his rage against society," and that he was angry after a series of public humiliations and unsuccessful business ventures.
Determined to show that authorities were getting tough on crime against children, the court sentenced Xu to death after a half-day trial.
At the time, officials and social commentators argued that the incidents were isolated and committed by mentally unstable persons or those with extreme grievances against the government.
Many around the country, however, argued the attacks underscored both increasing societal pressures on Chinese people and an urgent need for China to overhaul how it approaches mental health evaluation and treatment.
Earlier this year, Chinese legislatures had begun discussion on much needed mental health law reforms.
 
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Also related to what that psychologist said:

NSFW (mild gore)
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Note the date and the ID of the original poster. Second, note how he says it'll be newsworthy.

This is the second mass-shooter who has announced his intention to do such a thing on 4chan and followed-through. The other being Robert Hawkins of the Westroads Mall shooting in '07.

There have been several other threats boasted about on 4chan, but only two have come to fruition. The others were foiled by Anonymous or the FBI.

By the way... the news keeps saying that this is the WORST mass-shooting in US history, but keep forgetting the Virginia Tech massacre of '07. OR pretty much everything before 1901.
 
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
 
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/15/oklahoma-teen-arrested-in-school-shooting-plot/

BARTLESVILLE, Okla. – A Bartlesville High School student is in custody on charges he plotted to bomb and shoot students at the campus auditorium on the same day that 28 people were shot and killed at an elementary school in Connecticut.
Police arrested 18-year-old Sammie Eaglebear Chavez at about 4:30 a.m. Friday after learning of the alleged plot Thursday.
An arrest affidavit says Chavez tried to convince other students to help him lure students into the auditorium, chain the doors shut and start shooting. The Tulsa World reports that authorities say Chavez threatened to kill students who didn't help.
The Bartlesville Examiner-Enterprise reports Chavez planned to detonate bombs at the doors as police arrived.
The school district says students were never in danger. Chavez is being held on $1 million bond.
 
Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

Quoted for truth. Should be QOTW, too.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...er-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html

Written by Liza Long, republished from The Blue Review

Friday’s horrific national tragedy -- the murder of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut -- has ignited a new discussion on violence in America. In kitchens and coffee shops across the country, we tearfully debate the many faces of violence in America: gun culture, media violence, lack of mental health services, overt and covert wars abroad, religion, politics and the way we raise our children. Liza Long, a writer based in Boise, says it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

While every family's story of mental illness is different, and we may never know the whole of the Lanza's story, tales like this one need to be heard -- and families who live them deserve our help.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan -- they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”

“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”

“You know where we are going,” I replied.

“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork -- “Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…”

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying -- that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am James Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise -- in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill -- Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”

I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
 
Without even reading the Freeman quote, I pretty much said the same thing on my fb page about the issue.

Related news DSM-5 is coming soon to a psychologist near you. Will it have the profiles for self-immolating mass-murderers? Nope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM_V#Proposed_DSM-5_new_diagnoses

Are lawmakers already drafting some ridiculous and strict anti-gun laws and proposing to vote on them without reading them through? Yep.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/nj_federal_lawmakers_call_for.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324907204578183391365867704.html
^Some of the quotes in this article show that lawmakers are severely undereducated about these types of killings.

Meanwhile the special interests are doing everything they can to avoid US Citizens seeing this:
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Perhaps, instead of trying to limit the sale or import of "weapons of war" we might do a better job of stopping the manufacture of those weapons on our own soil.
 
I'm going to stop at the barracks on my way home tomorrow and pick up a few carbines.

Thanks for the info, Conchaga.

Also, brownie points for you for pretty much saying the same thing as someone else before they you heard they said it.
 
In my unit alone we had two cases of "lost" m-16's. I know of several other soldiers who served in other units that had similar incidents. Those who lose the weapons are normally slapped with an article 15 and lose pay for up to two months. In comparison to the sale prices of military-grade M-16's, if you're an enlisted man, you pay about half the price for one by losing a month's pay. In several cases those "lost" weapons are later recovered as having been sold to third parties. So, yeah, feasibly, you could stop by an army post and buy yourself an M-16.

The companies who manufacture those weapons also sell altered versions (usually different barrels and non-automatic firing mechanisms) of those weapons to the public. The gigantic magazines or drums can be purchased with no background checks from mail-order catalogs... they even ship to PO boxes. OR you can just wait for your friendly gun show to come to town and cobble them together by buying individual parts from separate vendors, because they're allowed to sell incomplete weapon parts without background checks. Theoretically, you can make a modified, illegal, assault weapon that's completely untraceable, slap in a super-mag, and go to town on a daycare near you.

I'm all for some more scrutinized purchasing restrictions on individual gun parts and making gun shows go away.

Also, let us never forget the ATF Gunwalking incident, because the government actually put serviceable assault weapons into the hands of drug cartels and illegal weapon dealers and then just "lost" them. Morons...
 
Oh, I shouldn't forget the case of the Army Major who "misplaced" 20 up-armored hmmwv's in '05. She went to jail, but the vehicles were never recovered. Cool shit, right?
 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ikes-in-Pakistan-since-start-of-campaign.html

168 children killed in drone strikes in Pakistan since start of campaign
As many as 168 children have been killed in drone strikes in Pakistan during the past seven years as the CIA has intensified its secret programme against militants along the Afghan border.

In an extensive analysis of open-source documents, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism found that 2,292 people had been killed by US missiles, including as many as 775 civilians.
The strikes, which began under President George W Bush but have since accelerated during the presidency of Barack Obama, are hated in Pakistan, where families live in fear of the bright specks that appear to hover in the sky overhead.
In just a single attack on a madrassah in 2006 up to 69 children lost their lives.
Chris Woods, who led the research, said the detailed database of deaths would send shockwaves through Pakistan, where political and military leaders repeatedly denounce the strikes in public, while privately allowing the US to continue.
"This is a military campaign run by a secret service which raised problems of accountability, transparency and you have a situation where neither the Pakistanis nor Americans are clear about any agreements in place and where the reporting is difficult," he said.
Related Articles
Drone campaigners plan UK prosecutions 18 Jul 2011
US halting millions in military aid for Pakistan 10 Jul 2011
"All of this means that when things go wrong there is simply no redress for the families of those who have been mistakenly killed."
The research, culled from more than 2,000 news reports, leaked documents and witness statements, show how the drones gradually moved from a rarely used tool, beginning with a single strike in 2004, to a frontline weapon of war.
Notable successes include the death of Baitullah Mehsud, head of the Pakistan Taliban, in 2009. Ilyas Kashmiri, a senior al-Qaeda figure viewed as a possible successor to Osama bin Laden, is believed to have died in a drone strike in June.
However, under President Obama the strikes have been used to target low-level foot soldiers as well as senior commanders.
Today the attacks are running at a rate of one every four days, mostly centred on North Waziristan from where members of the Haqqani network launch cross-border attacks on international forces in eastern Afghanistan.
With Pakistan so far unwilling to bow to US pressure to launch a military offensive against the bases and with Islamabad ruling out any suggestion that American troops be deployed, that leaves the CIA's drones, said Imtiaz Gul, an analyst who has written extensively on the region.
At the same time, he added, they mean a president elected on a manifesto promising to close Guantanamo Bay does not have hundreds more detainees to process.
"As long as these peoples sit in jails they remain a problem, a living liability, so there seems to be a drive to kill them," said Mr Gul.
Human rights campaigners have long argued that drones represent extra-judicial killings.
Sam Zarifi, Asia-Pacific director of Amnesty International, said: "The Obama administration must explain the legal basis for drone strikes in Pakistan to avoid the perception that it acts with impunity.
"The Pakistan government must also ensure accountability for indiscriminate killing, in violation of international law, that occurs inside Pakistan." The US refuses to acknowledge the existence of its drones programme.
A spokesman for the US embassy in Islamabad declined to comment.
 
Ugh... don't even get me started on the Pakistan/Drone thing. All I'm gonna say is that Obama is a coward-assed puppet being controlled by his party and special interests. I also don't think that we should be killing any more civilians in other countries until we have all of our men and women home from the other two, decade-long wars. We're making it easy for anti-American hard-liners to recruit soldiers to their bent thinking when we're arbitrarily murdering hundreds of their friends and families every month.

Re: Oregon mall CCW guy:

He made the right choice in not pulling the trigger. Just by being there and aiming his gun at the shooter, he did is part. It takes courage to not pull the trigger. What he said in that interview is something I've harped about for a while: in the fog of a gun battle, it's VERY easy to miss. If it's your first rodeo, your hands shake, the adrenaline will cloud your vision, and you're forced to make split-second decisions to determine whether you're going to take the life of another human being or not. Some people will freeze and think, "I don't WANT to do this." However, the rest of that line of thinking is this, "if he aims at me or someone else, I'll definitely pull the trigger." 99.9% of the time, when the "bad guy" starts to aim at the defender, the defender will fire. Kudos to him for having the wherewithal to not kill someone else or risk taking innocent life.

Also, a Glock 22? If the story of the shooter wearing body armor was correct, the CCW guy would've knocked him flat on his ass and not killed him. Those .40's pack a punch.
 
I personally don't care about civilian causalities by drone strike.

I just think it's a valid argument.

Apparently there was a double massacre in Alabama on Friday after the Connecticut one.

One in South Carolina.

The one-two in Oregon malls last week.

And another in Ohio? Not sure. I was at working when I heard about three of them. Banana phone bullshit.
 
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