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Good Morning Morons: Elizabeth Vargas

Ogami

New member
GMA's Vargas: When Will US Get on Euro/UN Bandwagon and Condemn Israel?
Posted by Mark Finkelstein on July 21, 2006 - 11:41.

Everyone knows that when it comes to winning wars and achieving peace, the model to follow is that laid out by France, other Europeans, and the UN.

Elizabeth Vargas, steadfast Euro-UN-ophile, is savvy enough to recognize that the US needs to fall in line behind wiser heads and 'condemn or rebuke' Israel. Sadly, an obdurate Bush administration, in the person of spokesman Tony Snow, just wasn't getting the message in a Good Morning America interview this morning.

Vargas: "Tony, this is day ten now of the conflict in the Middle East and only now is the US government considering sending Secretary Rice to the region. Why waiting so long to do so?"

Snow: "Well, first, Elizabeth, you have to understand even though Secretary Rice hasn't been to the region, we've had a high-level . . . delegation . . . there last week. . . Secretary Rice thought she would wait until we had a moment . . . when the time is ripe. Now she views this as a good time to go."

Vargas: "You mentioned European allies. The US has thus far been alone in its refusal to either rebuke or condemn Israel for its excessive force, as Kofi Annan called it last night. And in addition it has refused to call for any cessation of hostilities. At what point does the administration say to its close ally Israel, 'enough'?"

Snow: "First thing Elizabeth what you've done is flipped it backwards, making Israel the bad guy. Hezbollah started this. The finger out to be pointed at Hezbollah. Hezbollah is the aggressor."

Vargas: "All our European allies have had strong words of condemnation and the Lebanese prime minister is saying this isn't an attack on Hezbollah but on Lebanese civilians. Isn't there a danger that this could back fire and further inflame militant elements against the US?" (Yeah, wouldn't want to inflame those militants. The policy of appeasement was going so great on September 10th, 2001.)

Vargas: "Why not just ask for a pause at least, a 24-, 48-hour pause to give Lebanese civilians a chance to evacuate from the area?"

Snow: "One of the things that the United states and the UN has been talking about is humanitarian bridges to get in aid and get people out. But I'll ask you again: who are you going to talk to in Hezbollah to get the pause?"
http://newsbusters.org/node/6516

You tell 'em, Snow! Are there any actual journalists out there these days?

-Ogami
 
The more everyone outside Israel and the US government sees Israel's brutality for what it is, and the longer the former two groups refuse to acknowledge same, the bigger the backlash against Israel and Israeli policy -- worldwide -- will be.
 
The Question wrote:

The more everyone outside Israel and the US government sees Israel's brutality for what it is, and the longer the former two groups refuse to acknowledge same, the bigger the backlash against Israel and Israeli policy -- worldwide -- will be.

So everyone at the UN hates Israel. Do you really think it's a coincidence that the Bush administration has so little regard for the UN? The UN represents no one but the thugs, dictators, and despots that cover the world. They hate what America represents, they hate what Israel represents.

Bush knew exactly what he was doing when he distanced our foreign policy from UN approval. The more the socialist clowns at the UN trash Israel, it just proves Bush was right.

-Ogami
 
Ogami said:
The Question wrote:

The more everyone outside Israel and the US government sees Israel's brutality for what it is, and the longer the former two groups refuse to acknowledge same, the bigger the backlash against Israel and Israeli policy -- worldwide -- will be.

So everyone at the UN hates Israel.

And you still haven't asked yourself why that is, have you?

Do you really think it's a coincidence that the Bush administration has so little regard for the UN? The UN represents no one but the thugs, dictators, and despots that cover the world.

Yeah, those Brits, French, Danes, and their ilk, they're real monsters, huh?

They hate what America represents, they hate what Israel represents.

Don't put those two things together, they don't go together.

Bush knew exactly what he was doing when he distanced our foreign policy from UN approval. The more the socialist clowns at the UN trash Israel, it just proves Bush was right.

Or maybe it just proves that Bush was both wrong and outnumbered by wiser, calmer heads.
 
The Question wrote:

And you still haven't asked yourself why that is, have you?

Because the UN is full of worthless dictators who want Israel erased off the map. I have seen the face of evil and it's not Israel, it's the UN.

Ask the people of Rwanda how they feel about the UN's morality. Or the Sudan. Or the Congo. Or Cyprus. Or East Timor. Or any other place that is a blood-soaked failure of the United Nations.

Yeah, those Brits, French, Danes, and their ilk, they're real monsters, huh?

When did Britain stop being Bush's lapdog? Make up your mind.

As for the French, great job those peacekeepers did extracting sexual favors throughout Africa. Bet those refugees feel real good being "saved" by such assholes.

Or maybe it just proves that Bush was both wrong and outnumbered by wiser, calmer heads.

Why is the wiser, calmer choice for Israel to just sit there and die? Obviously that's convenient for European scum who'd just as soon see them dead, but I think Israel doesn't give a damn what they think. And well they should not.

-Ogami
 
Ogami said:
Why is the wiser, calmer choice for Israel to just sit there and die? Obviously that's convenient for European scum who'd just as soon see them dead, but I think Israel doesn't give a damn what they think. And well they should not.

What, is Israel a vampire, now, that it'll die if it doesn't slaughter scores of innocent civilians through indiscriminate bombing and shelling?

If that's the case, then it should die.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not slack in placing negative marks where they belong -- but at this stage of the show, the burden of those marks belongs with Israel.

Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.:

-Target civilians indiscriminately in order to exert pressure on Israel to release prisoners, withdraw from occupied territories, exact revenge for Israeli attacks against Palestinians and others

Israel:

-Targets civilians indiscriminately
-Destroys civilian infrastructure
-Illegally seizes and occupies land
-Lies to the international community (Remember the Lavon Affair?)
-Assaults its own allies (USS Liberty) murders civilians of its allies (Rachel Corrie)

And all of this shit that it's doing to Lebanon and Gaza right now? If you think that's going to eliminate terrorism against it -- or us -- you are in serious need of a reality check. The only thing their current indiscriminate campaign of terror against Gaza and Lebanon is going to accomplish is to recruit even more Lebanese and Palestinians into radical groups that will target Israel and us.

And don't underestimate the ability of the ragheads to strike Israeli and American assets, anywhere in the world. Paris and Brazil, to name just two places Hezbollah alone has struck outside of the middle east.

Israel isn't going to destroy resistance to its terror regime, it's only going to create more terror regimes that oppose it.
 
The Question wrote:

What, is Israel a vampire, now, that it'll die if it doesn't slaughter scores of innocent civilians through indiscriminate bombing and shelling? If that's the case, then it should die.

LOL Call in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Seriously, blame Hezbollah for not having soldiers in uniform and fighting in battle formations. They hide behind civilians, yet YOU blame Israel for that. Now that's screwed up, Question!

Target civilians indiscriminately in order to exert pressure on Israel to release prisoners, withdraw from occupied territories, exact revenge for Israeli attacks against Palestinians and others

And let's not forget that Israel performs -gasp- racial profiling for anyone getting on an El Al flight. Small wonder they haven't had any 9/11s, they have to deal with such assclowns every day.

And all of this shit that it's doing to Lebanon and Gaza right now?

From all indications, Israel is just getting started. The louder Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran/Syria/Lebanon cries, the more the innocent civilians in the area should be demanding the terrorists out of their towns and homes.

Unless, Hezbollah is the local civilian populace being bombed. Then that means Israel is not missing the target.

If you think that's going to eliminate terrorism against it -- or us -- you are in serious need of a reality check. The only thing their current indiscriminate campaign of terror against Gaza and Lebanon is going to accomplish is to recruit even more Lebanese and Palestinians into radical groups that will target Israel and us.

As opposed to the state of not shooting back against the terrorists, which is what you recommend. Sadly for your position, Hezbollah appears well-armed, by Syria and Iran, so the innocent victim routine you rely on isn't working. They wanted a war, well they got one.

And if you're so concerned about civilian casualties, then you should go there in person and hand out Hezbollah uniforms for that side to put on. I can picture it now, each military uniform would have a nametag like "Hello, My Name is Habib, and I am a soldier in Jihad!"

Israel isn't going to destroy resistance to its terror regime, it's only going to create more terror regimes that oppose it.

Again the hilarious claim that not fighting back against terrorists will make them peaceful! Why stop there, have Israel hand all their guns to their enemies and say "We trust you because The Question does!"

-Ogami
 
Ogami, if you don't ask the tough questions like "how did we get here", you'll never reach a lasting peace anywhere, just keep figthing back at the terror strikes like putting band-aids on bigger and bigger wounds...the other doctors around you and even the patient are saying WTF ARE YOU DOING???

Might doesn't always make right, it just makes might and inspires others to get mightier in retaliation. Play the tape to the end of this sruggle, what happens?
 
Eggs asked:

Ogami, if you don't ask the tough questions like "how did we get here",

Well it's like this, my mother and my father were in love, and they got together, and nine months later, I was the result! Oh, maybe that's not what you meant.

you'll never reach a lasting peace anywhere, just keep figthing back at the terror strikes like putting band-aids on bigger and bigger wounds...the other doctors around you and even the patient are saying WTF ARE YOU DOING???

Peace is only possible when both sides want peace. Israel wants to kill those who kidnap their soldiers and firebomb their buses and cafes. Hezbollah wants to kill those who have stolen their land. Little room for compromise.

Fight it out, and settle it. Ceasefires and UN intervention are the Band-Aids, Eggs. (And in case anyone doesn't know what a map of the Middle East looks like, the Israelis are the underdogs.)

-Ogami
 
^^Exactly. American money has fattened Israel's military to the point where unless every single other country in the region took them on, Israel vs. anybody is instant overkill.

And even IF every other country in the region banded together to take on Israel, Israel would pull its trump card -- nukes. That's right -- Israel's got 'em, thanks to the French. They scream and moan about Iran getting them, but Iran is a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, whereas Israel refuses to sign on.
 
This latest action will breed such hatred like you wouldn't believe. I'm afraid no western tourist will be safe in that region for at least the next decade.
 
Personally, I don't expect to be safe in this region for too much longer. Our President's continued unquestioning support of Israel despite their aggression in this situation is going to cost American lives, and more than likely that means here at home as well as abroad.
 
Grammour Boy wrote:

This latest action will breed such hatred like you wouldn't believe. I'm afraid no western tourist will be safe in that region for at least the next decade.

Ha HAAHH ha hah!!!! As if they were safe last month?????????????????????? What Jihad did you miss?

:y_grin:
 
Eggs Mayonnaise wrote:

Also the firepower, as you missed my point completely.

No, I understood your point. It's a standard catchphrase of Israel's critics that America gave them everything they needed to win every war. Never happened. Israel has out-fought, out-produced, and out-prospered their neighbors because of their hard work, not because of America or any other country. Too bad their neighbors cannot say the same, they all live in slums borne of their own dictatorships and squalid theocracies.

Israel is a thorn in the side of Arab dictatorships because it is a prosperous and self-sufficient country despite being under near-total embargo by all its neighbors for its modern existence. And it doesn't help that an Israeli Arab has, oh, about six thousand more rights than any Arab living in Syria, Egypt, or Lebanon.

Blame Israel if you wish for every photo of a crying Lebanese child or bridge blown up. The raid that started all this was planned by Hezbollah to start a war and they are obviously armed to the teeth to wage such a war. (Where did the critics think Hezbollah rockets came from? Magic?)
____________________

Umh...it's Glammour Boy, Ogami.

Ooops, my bad. I got the "our" part right though. (And this is very weird, because you just corrected my grammar. I'm easily confused.)

-Ogami
 
Ogami said:
Eggs Mayonnaise wrote:

Also the firepower, as you missed my point completely.

No, I understood your point. It's a standard catchphrase of Israel's critics that America gave them everything they needed to win every war. Never happened.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html]Wrong.

Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US

By David R. Francis | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.
This is an estimate by Thomas Stauffer, a consulting economist in Washington. For decades, his analyses of the Middle East scene have made him a frequent thorn in the side of the Israel lobby.
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For the first time in many years, Mr. Stauffer has tallied the total cost to the US of its backing of Israel in its drawn-out, violent dispute with the Palestinians. So far, he figures, the bill adds up to more than twice the cost of the Vietnam War.
And now Israel wants more. In a meeting at the White House late last month, Israeli officials made a pitch for $4 billion in additional military aid to defray the rising costs of dealing with the intifada and suicide bombings. They also asked for more than $8 billion in loan guarantees to help the country's recession-bound economy.
Considering Israel's deep economic troubles, Stauffer doubts the Israel bonds covered by the loan guarantees will ever be repaid. The bonds are likely to be structured so they don't pay interest until they reach maturity. If Stauffer is right, the US would end up paying both principal and interest, perhaps 10 years out.
Israel's request could be part of a supplemental spending bill that's likely to be passed early next year, perhaps wrapped in with the cost of a war with Iraq.
Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid. It is already due to get $2.04 billion in military assistance and $720 million in economic aid in fiscal 2003. It has been getting $3 billion a year for years.
Adjusting the official aid to 2001 dollars in purchasing power, Israel has been given $240 billion since 1973, Stauffer reckons. In addition, the US has given Egypt $117 billion and Jordan $22 billion in foreign aid in return for signing peace treaties with Israel.
"Consequently, politically, if not administratively, those outlays are part of the total package of support for Israel," argues Stauffer in a lecture on the total costs of US Middle East policy, commissioned by the US Army War College, for a recent conference at the University of Maine.
These foreign-aid costs are well known. Many Americans would probably say it is money well spent to support a beleagured democracy of some strategic interest. But Stauffer wonders if Americans are aware of the full bill for supporting Israel since some costs, if not hidden, are little known.
One huge cost is not secret. It is the higher cost of oil and other economic damage to the US after Israel-Arab wars.
In 1973, for instance, Arab nations attacked Israel in an attempt to win back territories Israel had conquered in the 1967 war. President Nixon resupplied Israel with US arms, triggering the Arab oil embargo against the US.
That shortfall in oil deliveries kicked off a deep recession. The US lost $420 billion (in 2001 dollars) of output as a result, Stauffer calculates. And a boost in oil prices cost another $450 billion.
Afraid that Arab nations might use their oil clout again, the US set up a Strategic Petroleum Reserve. That has since cost, conservatively, $134 billion, Stauffer reckons.
Other US help includes:
• US Jewish charities and organizations have remitted grants or bought Israel bonds worth $50 billion to $60 billion. Though private in origin, the money is "a net drain" on the United States economy, says Stauffer.
• The US has already guaranteed $10 billion in commercial loans to Israel, and $600 million in "housing loans." (See editor's note below.) Stauffer expects the US Treasury to cover these.
• The US has given $2.5 billion to support Israel's Lavi fighter and Arrow missile projects.
• Israel buys discounted, serviceable "excess" US military equipment. Stauffer says these discounts amount to "several billion dollars" over recent years.
• Israel uses roughly 40 percent of its $1.8 billion per year in military aid, ostensibly earmarked for purchase of US weapons, to buy Israeli-made hardware. It also has won the right to require the Defense Department or US defense contractors to buy Israeli-made equipment or subsystems, paying 50 to 60 cents on every defense dollar the US gives to Israel.
US help, financial and technical, has enabled Israel to become a major weapons supplier. Weapons make up almost half of Israel's manufactured exports. US defense contractors often resent the buy-Israel requirements and the extra competition subsidized by US taxpayers.
• US policy and trade sanctions reduce US exports to the Middle East about $5 billion a year, costing 70,000 or so American jobs, Stauffer estimates. Not requiring Israel to use its US aid to buy American goods, as is usual in foreign aid, costs another 125,000 jobs.
• Israel has blocked some major US arms sales, such as F-15 fighter aircraft to Saudi Arabia in the mid-1980s. That cost $40 billion over 10 years, says Stauffer.
Stauffer's list will be controversial. He's been assisted in this research by a number of mostly retired military or diplomatic officials who do not go public for fear of being labeled anti-Semitic if they criticize America's policies toward Israel.
Editor's note: A previous version of this story incorrectly reported the amount of housing loans guaranteed by the US.


Blame Israel if you wish for every photo of a crying Lebanese child or bridge blown up. The raid that started all this was planned by Hezbollah to start a war and they are obviously armed to the teeth to wage such a war. (Where did the critics think Hezbollah rockets came from? Magic?)

The rockets Hezbollah are using are Katyusha MLRS -- Katyushas are a Russian-designed munition dating back to WW2. Russian munitions in that region are notoriously plentiful.
 
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