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Israelis accused of 'human shields' tactic
- Thread starter Tyrant
- Start date
Ogami
New member
If I understand it right, you've got Israel soldiers who want to enter a house. But they don't know if there is someone waiting in there with an AK-47 or suicide bomb. So they have a Palestinian in the town go in first.
This is, of course, after all the townsfolk swear up and down they have no fighters hiding in their village.
All this proves is that Israeli soldiers value their lives. And that trust is not to be emplaced with people who would as soon see them all dead.
Good job.
I highly doubt Zodiac would do any different were he presented with a similiar situation.
-Ogami
This is, of course, after all the townsfolk swear up and down they have no fighters hiding in their village.
All this proves is that Israeli soldiers value their lives. And that trust is not to be emplaced with people who would as soon see them all dead.
Good job.
I highly doubt Zodiac would do any different were he presented with a similiar situation.
-Ogami
Big Dick McGee
If you don't know, now ya know
^^You gotta remember, Ogami is a total apologist for Israel. Basically, it boils down to this:
If Arabs do it, it's evil, and we should bomb the hell out of them.
If Israelis do it, it's right and just and God's will.
This applies even to when Israelis do the same exact thing for which the Arabs have been condemned.
I bet you Ogami could rationalize Israelis purposely bombing a building full of babies, kittens, and puppy dogs. :roll:
If Arabs do it, it's evil, and we should bomb the hell out of them.
If Israelis do it, it's right and just and God's will.
This applies even to when Israelis do the same exact thing for which the Arabs have been condemned.
I bet you Ogami could rationalize Israelis purposely bombing a building full of babies, kittens, and puppy dogs. :roll:
Ogami
New member
Mentalist wrote:
So Ogami would illegally use children as a sheild to go into a possibly dangerous situation?
You're assuming the literal truth to 100% of the Palestinian claim.
This is what I never understand about the left. Any claim by a western government is greeted with total skepticism and demands for exhaustive proof. Yet let terrorists (or America's/Israel's) enemies make a claim, and you believe 100% of it up and down, no questions asked!
I can understand skepticism in one's own government, but I am totally baffled why you don't extend that same skepticism to everyone else.
-Ogami
So Ogami would illegally use children as a sheild to go into a possibly dangerous situation?
You're assuming the literal truth to 100% of the Palestinian claim.
This is what I never understand about the left. Any claim by a western government is greeted with total skepticism and demands for exhaustive proof. Yet let terrorists (or America's/Israel's) enemies make a claim, and you believe 100% of it up and down, no questions asked!
I can understand skepticism in one's own government, but I am totally baffled why you don't extend that same skepticism to everyone else.
-Ogami
Ogami
New member
Big Dick McGee wrote:
This applies even to when Israelis do the same exact thing for which the Arabs have been condemned.
I understand your point of moral equivalence. You say Israel is the same as Hezbollah. Therefore, continuing the thought, we should stay out of the conflict other than issuing a general moral condemnation of Israel.
What your mistake is in looking at all instances of Islamic terrorism as singular, unrelated instances. Not so much a conspiracy, but a common goal. The Islamic terrorists maintain that the only law they need follow is their reading of the Koran. They respect no government, no law, no human rights save what their religious creed allows.
In this, Islamic terrorists are no different than the most extreme of Zionists.
What I would like you to understand is that I see nothing to be gained in censoring Israel and supporting Hezbollah/Hamas/Iran/Syria by natural consequence. Israel has its problems, Israel has its flaws, but compared to their neighbors in the region, they're the best friend America can hope for.
After all, what is the alternative? I don't believe you or the other Israeli critics have thought this through, you just have your knee-jerk anti-Israeli attitude. Think through your positions. If we don't support Israel, whom do we support in this conflict? Hezbollah?
And will they be grateful to Mentalist, Big Dick McGee, or the Question afterwards? Or will they simply continue to hate all westerners as the source of their problems, and consider you only deserving of death? I don't need a crystal ball to predict that will be their reaction, even if you side with them in every respect and every way. You probably know this in your hearts.
Islamic fundamentalists will always consider you to be the enemy. And should you side with them against Israel, or any of the western democracies, they will take your support, but they will still seek your death. 9/11 was not an isolated criminal case where we slap handcuffs on a few people and it's done. Islamic terorists have declared a global war against all those who don't subscribe to their wacky view of the Koran.
Whether you choose to fight in that war is up to you. But you are their enemy no matter how much you condemn Israel. They will simply consider your support as more weakness from the west. And they would be right.
-Ogami
This applies even to when Israelis do the same exact thing for which the Arabs have been condemned.
I understand your point of moral equivalence. You say Israel is the same as Hezbollah. Therefore, continuing the thought, we should stay out of the conflict other than issuing a general moral condemnation of Israel.
What your mistake is in looking at all instances of Islamic terrorism as singular, unrelated instances. Not so much a conspiracy, but a common goal. The Islamic terrorists maintain that the only law they need follow is their reading of the Koran. They respect no government, no law, no human rights save what their religious creed allows.
In this, Islamic terrorists are no different than the most extreme of Zionists.
What I would like you to understand is that I see nothing to be gained in censoring Israel and supporting Hezbollah/Hamas/Iran/Syria by natural consequence. Israel has its problems, Israel has its flaws, but compared to their neighbors in the region, they're the best friend America can hope for.
After all, what is the alternative? I don't believe you or the other Israeli critics have thought this through, you just have your knee-jerk anti-Israeli attitude. Think through your positions. If we don't support Israel, whom do we support in this conflict? Hezbollah?
And will they be grateful to Mentalist, Big Dick McGee, or the Question afterwards? Or will they simply continue to hate all westerners as the source of their problems, and consider you only deserving of death? I don't need a crystal ball to predict that will be their reaction, even if you side with them in every respect and every way. You probably know this in your hearts.
Islamic fundamentalists will always consider you to be the enemy. And should you side with them against Israel, or any of the western democracies, they will take your support, but they will still seek your death. 9/11 was not an isolated criminal case where we slap handcuffs on a few people and it's done. Islamic terorists have declared a global war against all those who don't subscribe to their wacky view of the Koran.
Whether you choose to fight in that war is up to you. But you are their enemy no matter how much you condemn Israel. They will simply consider your support as more weakness from the west. And they would be right.
-Ogami
It's not just a palestinan claim, dumbass. It's warranted an Israeli human rights watchdog claim. It's being reported on the BBC NEWS site, one of, if not the most respected news stations in the world.
A quick google search will show you it's being reported in numerous places. Yep, I'm going to say I believe it.
Now, answer the question.
Ogami
New member
Mentalist wrote:
It's not just a palestinan claim, dumbass. It's warranted an Israeli human rights watchdog claim. It's being reported on the BBC NEWS site, one of, if not the most respected news stations in the world. A quick google search will show you it's being reported in numerous places. Yep, I'm going to say I believe it. Now, answer the question.
As I asked, and will expand upon, why does Mentalist, the human rights groups, worldwide leftists, worldwide communists, worldwide socialists, and worldwide liberals always believe 100% of the claims of terrorists, yet demand exhaustive proof when their own western governments make claims? I understand the skepticism extended to one's own government, I do not understand why that same skepticism is not extended to other groups opposed to us. Why is the enemy always believed, and our own governments discounted?
It must just be a knee-jerk reaction, with zero thought behind it.
-Ogami
It's not just a palestinan claim, dumbass. It's warranted an Israeli human rights watchdog claim. It's being reported on the BBC NEWS site, one of, if not the most respected news stations in the world. A quick google search will show you it's being reported in numerous places. Yep, I'm going to say I believe it. Now, answer the question.
As I asked, and will expand upon, why does Mentalist, the human rights groups, worldwide leftists, worldwide communists, worldwide socialists, and worldwide liberals always believe 100% of the claims of terrorists, yet demand exhaustive proof when their own western governments make claims? I understand the skepticism extended to one's own government, I do not understand why that same skepticism is not extended to other groups opposed to us. Why is the enemy always believed, and our own governments discounted?
It must just be a knee-jerk reaction, with zero thought behind it.
-Ogami
I'm not a leftist for a start. And who said I believed claims of terrorists?
What makes you think these civilians are terrorists? There is zero proof unlike the ample proof for this story that these people are terrorists. That is of course unless Ogami doesn't believe that any arab decending human can be anything but a terrorist, right?
I don't "just" believe anything. BBC NEWS is a way better source than anything you've given us which has included bloggers articles. If a Human Rights group, an Israeli Human Rights Group at that believes the story has merit and there are pictures and interviews with a number of eye witnesses, then yes, that's good enough. Especially since stories like these have been levelled at the IDF before.
Now, stop stalling and answer the question.
Ogami
New member
Mentalist wrote:
That is of course unless Ogami doesn't believe that any arab decending human can be anything but a terrorist, right?
The Palestinian people spoke with a clear voice in their last (first?) election, where they chose Hamas to represent them best. You know, the Hamas that does not want peace with Israel but the Hamas that has pledged to drive every jew into the sea and "retake" their "homeland".
And if that wasn't clear enough for you, Mentalist, then how bout the day and days after 9/11, where the entire Palestinian nation danced in the streets with joy upon learning that America had "finally" been "punished" by Islamic terrorists? You may have a conveniently short memory, but I do not share your failings.
It is the Palestinians who send their children into crowded restaurants and marketplaces, it is the Palestinians, through Hamas and Hezbollah, who have made it clear theirs is a culture of death. Not looking for terrorists in Palestine? You're obviously not looking at all.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmnyc/59386957/
-Ogami
That is of course unless Ogami doesn't believe that any arab decending human can be anything but a terrorist, right?
The Palestinian people spoke with a clear voice in their last (first?) election, where they chose Hamas to represent them best. You know, the Hamas that does not want peace with Israel but the Hamas that has pledged to drive every jew into the sea and "retake" their "homeland".
And if that wasn't clear enough for you, Mentalist, then how bout the day and days after 9/11, where the entire Palestinian nation danced in the streets with joy upon learning that America had "finally" been "punished" by Islamic terrorists? You may have a conveniently short memory, but I do not share your failings.
It is the Palestinians who send their children into crowded restaurants and marketplaces, it is the Palestinians, through Hamas and Hezbollah, who have made it clear theirs is a culture of death. Not looking for terrorists in Palestine? You're obviously not looking at all.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmnyc/59386957/
-Ogami
The Question
Eternal
Ogami said:
Fixed.