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Libby court papers: Cheney said Bush OK'd intelligence leak
- Thread starter Caitriona
- Start date
The Question
Eternal
...under the banner of the jackass instead of the banner of the bloated pachyderm. 'Cause basically, there ain't much difference between 'em, anymore.
Caitriona
Something Wicked
And yet, no one seems tor be serious about a Reform Party. I suppose other ideologies might make it unworkable, but you'd think that between dissatisfied Dem's and Rep's we could put together some reform. Worry about the rest of the political land mines after we 'clean up ALL the corruption'. Unfortunately, it seems to be the same old Dem's vs Rep's instead of the public voting the lot of them out of office.
There's not only a power void in Iraq there is one forming here in the US. I'd hate to think that more corrupt Rep's march in AND I hate the prospect of more [just different] corrupt Dem's waltzing into office.
It's time to vote for some we actually believe in, and not just the lesser of two [equally corrupt] evils.
There's not only a power void in Iraq there is one forming here in the US. I'd hate to think that more corrupt Rep's march in AND I hate the prospect of more [just different] corrupt Dem's waltzing into office.
It's time to vote for some we actually believe in, and not just the lesser of two [equally corrupt] evils.
The Question
Eternal
^^Unfortunately, although I hate to come across as pushing a conspiracy theory (because of my views on other subjects not least of all), I think the level of corruption that already exists in our political process would make that impossible. Things are already so bad that anything the voters do is either going to be dictated by or cancelled out by the levels of money being injected into "preferred" candidates.
Caitriona
Something Wicked
The Question said:
Actually I agree with this. There is just too much power to be 'held' on to in Washington and the world. We're [the voters] just the ones being bent over for taxes.
Here's another bit on this story.. I'm trying to find that actual court documents.
National Journal
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Actually, if Bush authorized the leak, it's (1) nothing new, since leaks have been going on since the Madison Administration and (2) not illegal, because as Commander-in-Chief, he can authorize the release of classified information.
He's the President, remember? It's within the scope of his power to do this if he deems it necessary.
He's the President, remember? It's within the scope of his power to do this if he deems it necessary.
Caitriona
Something Wicked
Yes, that's apparently true. What I must be missing then, is why wasn't this just all explained before we wasted millions of dollars investigating what was 'business as usual'? Hummm???
I mean if no crime was committed and the President had the right to de-classify anything he deemed necessary, then why not just say so 3 years ago and be done with it.
What we have here "looks" like a cover up that never needed to occur. The law was on his side. Either he broke the law, or he just thought he could keep quiet wasting even more $$$$ only to pull the "Well I de-classified it" loop hole out of his magic hat.
Come on... Bush's Executive Powers have been tested in some fundamentally suspicious arenas. Wouldn't you agree? He reminds me of a Mob Boss in Court having a case dismissed on a technicality. Sure it is a legitimate technicality, but do we really want a President who searches around for a technicality so he can have a case for breaking the law dismissed?
I mean if no crime was committed and the President had the right to de-classify anything he deemed necessary, then why not just say so 3 years ago and be done with it.
What we have here "looks" like a cover up that never needed to occur. The law was on his side. Either he broke the law, or he just thought he could keep quiet wasting even more $$$$ only to pull the "Well I de-classified it" loop hole out of his magic hat.
Come on... Bush's Executive Powers have been tested in some fundamentally suspicious arenas. Wouldn't you agree? He reminds me of a Mob Boss in Court having a case dismissed on a technicality. Sure it is a legitimate technicality, but do we really want a President who searches around for a technicality so he can have a case for breaking the law dismissed?
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Well, from what I've been able to see, none of what Libby is talking about involves the outing of Plame, just the releasing of intelligence that would rebut what Wilson said in his NYTimes piece the week before the leak.
The media isn't really pointing that out, but allowing the public to infer that we are talking about the Plame incident, when nothing I've read thus far has actually mentioned that Libby specifically said Bush authorized leaking her name.
And even so, I'm not sure that outing her was wrong. Wilson's getting the job to investigate Nigeria seems to have been handled in less than an above-the-board manner, and outing Plame as his wife strikes me more as whistle-blowing than it does anything else. And Wilson wasn't exactly an impartial investigator into these claims, whether they actually were spurious or not. He doesn't strike me as the man for the job, because his bias made his conclusions suspect.
The media isn't really pointing that out, but allowing the public to infer that we are talking about the Plame incident, when nothing I've read thus far has actually mentioned that Libby specifically said Bush authorized leaking her name.
And even so, I'm not sure that outing her was wrong. Wilson's getting the job to investigate Nigeria seems to have been handled in less than an above-the-board manner, and outing Plame as his wife strikes me more as whistle-blowing than it does anything else. And Wilson wasn't exactly an impartial investigator into these claims, whether they actually were spurious or not. He doesn't strike me as the man for the job, because his bias made his conclusions suspect.
Caitriona
Something Wicked
Actually that's not true.. It's up front in the article [the 3rd paragraph], not hidden at the bottom or buried in the middle.
What it does say is that Bush and Cheny put Libby into play to leak classified info.
The fact that legally, if Bush OK'ed it, the info automatically becomes de-classified is convenient for the President, but it doesn't make me feel much better.
The leaks were part of the 'march to war' drum pounding. A march that has since been show to have been riddled with mis-information.
What it does say is that Bush and Cheny put Libby into play to leak classified info.
The fact that legally, if Bush OK'ed it, the info automatically becomes de-classified is convenient for the President, but it doesn't make me feel much better.
The leaks were part of the 'march to war' drum pounding. A march that has since been show to have been riddled with mis-information.
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Caitriona said:
I was referring more to the coverage I saw on CNN this afternoon, while at the gym, and the news briefs on the local ABC affiliate. These seemed to conflate the Plame incident in with Libby's testimony, without calling attention to the fact that the Plame incident was not the subject of his testimony.
As for Bush leaking the info, I'm not sure what to think of it. I know that it's always happened, and sometimes it's for political reasons, but other times it's also because the president at the time felt that it was better for national security to leak the info than to sit on it.
In this case, I can see how Bush might make a case that by leaking the info, he was better able to make a case to the public for the War in Iraq and the actions of the United States in the Middle East, and that he felt that convincing the nation that it was correct to take action was vital to our security.
I'm not defending Bush, because I don't know enough about the particulars of this case to know why things were done. I do know that my reaction upon hearing that Plame was CIA and that she got Wilson the gig was that there was definitely something fishy there that needed to be investigated.
I mean, that's why the media decided to disclose the information, isn't it? Because they saw the potential for a scandal?
Hambil
I AM A GOLDEN GOD
Bush proudly proclaimed that if there was a leak in his administration he would find it and deal with it. All the time knowing that HE was the leak.
It's no better than "I did not have sex with that woman".
Why aren't all the Repuboheads screaming LIAR LIAR now?
Sickening.
It's no better than "I did not have sex with that woman".
Why aren't all the Repuboheads screaming LIAR LIAR now?
Sickening.
Caitriona
Something Wicked
Number_6 said:
Politics is all about perception. Perceptually, it looks like he is a hypocrite and subject to political expediencies just like all the other politicians we love to hate. In other words, he is just as bad as all the rest. Except, this particular hypocrite has us bankrupt as a nation and waist deep in a war we can't possibly win..
Like it or not, Clinton left us with a balanced budget and there weren't as many body bags being shipped home to their parents. Yeah, yeah, I know after 9/11 it all changed, well "Bite Me". It didn't change that much.
The fact that he technically didn't break any laws doesn't bail him out of hot water with me, it only means no one can use this crap as a charge in the Articles of Impeachment.
I'm just sayin....
