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Russian Military goes to war... With Itself
- Thread starter starguard
- Start date
SaintLucifer
beer, I want beer
Is this the same Russian military which the Americans have NEVER faced, for which we are all thankful? The same military that kept the 'mighty' Americans in check for decades? The same military that made the Americans their bitches? That military? Yes, I thought so.
Charlemagne
Holy Roman Emperor
And the same military that we kept in check? Yes.
Consumer
Elder Statesman
USSR - No longer in existence.
USA - Still here, and still the most powerful military on Earth.
Meh.
I recall a few very spirited "Coastie vs. Squid" bar fights back in the day...it's part of the military culture. As long as we can all report to muster the next morning, then no harm done.
USA - Still here, and still the most powerful military on Earth.
Meh.
I recall a few very spirited "Coastie vs. Squid" bar fights back in the day...it's part of the military culture. As long as we can all report to muster the next morning, then no harm done.
SaintLucifer
beer, I want beer
That's why you 'kept them in check' whilst they destroyed Afghanistan for 10 years? Yet, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, only THEN did you decide it was time to 'help' the fucking ragheads? You fucking hypocrites did nothing because you feared the Soviets, so you let them rip a nation apart. Hmmm? You kept no one in check, bitch. Any time the Soviets went on a military adventure, you Americans sat back, and shut the fuck up like the good little wussies you are.
SaintLucifer
beer, I want beer
What does the collapse of the Soviet Union have to do with the USA??? That was an internal happenstance, you moron. The USA had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Why is it Americans continue to suggest to this very day that they are the 'most powerful military on earth', yet they have never faced a real foe? Did you not get your collective 'mighty military asses' kicked by a bunch of slant kids wearing pyjamas?
Consumer
Elder Statesman
It's actually very simple, Luci.
The US has not gone to war since 1945. Everything we have done since WWII has been for a limited objective, not a "total war". If we had, Vietnam would reducing light-bills across south Asia from the glow, and Iraq and Afghanistan would be sheets of glass with little person-sized lumps in it. Look at what was done to Tokyo and Dresden, both of which killed more in incendiary attacks than the two nukes we dropped.
The US is just a little too "civilized" now to indiscriminately bomb civilians the way we (and our enemies) used to do in the "good old days". This is both a point of pride and one of frustration.
The US DID cause the collapse of the USSR, mainly by forcing the USSR to run an un-sustainable defense budget that eventually caused their system to collapse. We didn't out fight the USSR, we out-spent it which is often overlooked and I believe is one of the greatest achievements of our time. We "won" without firing a shot. Read your history (not that I expect a concession from you, Luci, just letting everyone else see what an idiot you are...but I repeat myself!).
The US has not gone to war since 1945. Everything we have done since WWII has been for a limited objective, not a "total war". If we had, Vietnam would reducing light-bills across south Asia from the glow, and Iraq and Afghanistan would be sheets of glass with little person-sized lumps in it. Look at what was done to Tokyo and Dresden, both of which killed more in incendiary attacks than the two nukes we dropped.
The US is just a little too "civilized" now to indiscriminately bomb civilians the way we (and our enemies) used to do in the "good old days". This is both a point of pride and one of frustration.
The US DID cause the collapse of the USSR, mainly by forcing the USSR to run an un-sustainable defense budget that eventually caused their system to collapse. We didn't out fight the USSR, we out-spent it which is often overlooked and I believe is one of the greatest achievements of our time. We "won" without firing a shot. Read your history (not that I expect a concession from you, Luci, just letting everyone else see what an idiot you are...but I repeat myself!).
SaintLucifer
beer, I want beer
A 'limited' objective when you sent over 200,000 Marines ALONE to Vietnam? That doesn't count regular Army personnel. In total, at one time, the USA send MORE THAN A THIRD of their total forces to Vietnam. 'Limited', my ass. Yet, you STILL had your asses handed to you.
As for your argument about reducing Vietnam to glass, the USA would have suffered the same fate, for neither the Soviet Union nor the Chinese would have allowed you to use your nukes. The Chinese had forces fighting in Vietnam. Yet, you never touched Chinese territory. Why? You were scared shitless of them. Gutless cunts. Exactly as in WWII when you WAITED until MY PEOPLE had virtually destroyed the Nazis before you decided to enter the fray.
The ONLY REASON you even bothered to invade Iraq would be thanks to your fear of the Soviets. You and I both know you would never have even given Iraq a second glance had the Soviet Union still been around. The same goes for Afghanistan, as both territories are too close to their borders. This is proof the Soviet Union OWNED your asses. You even fought both the Korean and Vietnam Wars in a way that made certain you would never have to face the Soviets, you were so afraid of them. Shit, when Israel was fighting the dumbass Arabs in the Six-Day War, you were frightened of Soviet intervention, such that you stayed out of the fray. When the USS Liberty was literally destroyed by the Israelis, and rightfully so, you panicked, believing it was a Soviet sub who did it. You immediately backed down from the Soviets after that. You were GLAD your sailors were killed by Israelis rather than Soviets because you did not wish to face a REAL war machine in the Soviet Red Army.
More American arrogance, to believe that the Soviet defence budget was designed to face the USA, when it was designed for WORLD CONQUEST. The Soviet dogma was 'the world, or nothing'. Theirs was a goal of world communism, no matter the cost. They spent far, far, far more than the Americans ever did in order to achieve their goal. All world conflagrations were started by the Soviets. You think the Cuban military survived on the sale of sugar cane in Cuba? The North Vietnamese military? The Chinese military? The entire Eastern Bloc? Fuck, but you are stupid. When KGB documents were released, the Russians AND the Americans were absolutely staggered at Soviet military expenditures. The Soviets had more of EVERYTHING than the entire world COMBINED, with the exception of nukes, the ONLY THING of which you had more. It was their communist system that caused them to collapse, NOT your increased expenditures. Those didn't help them any, but they were NOT the cause. Shit, the Soviet Union, once the grain breadbasket of the world, could not even feed their own people, thanks to an outdated communist system that caused production numbers to dwindle to virtually nothing.
Charlemagne
Holy Roman Emperor
Oh please. The Soviets failed to take Afghanistan, and we did supply the native resistance with weapons. What would Canada have done? Prolly sent flowers for the dead, and apologize, but that's it. Ever see the movie "Canadian Bacon"? Yeah, it would kinda go like that.
SaintLucifer
beer, I want beer
The Soviets failed to take Afghanistan? You moron, Afghanistan was effectively under Soviet control for 10 years. It was Soviets hunting down the guerillas, much like you are now hunting down the Taliban. Admittedly, your supply of Stinger missiles to the ragheads, allowing them to take down the armoured Hinds, made a noticeable difference, which just caused the Soviets to kill more Afghanis in anger. You are directly responsible for the incredible death toll there. I find it amusing that you directly armed today's Taliban. According to your own logic, YOU too are losing in Afghanistan because the Taliban is still at large, exactly as it was when the Soviets were there.
The Soviets, contrary to American bullshit stories, did NOT leave Afghanistan in defeat. They left because they were BANKRUPT. Why would they leave all of their vehicles behind? They couldn't afford the fuel to get them back to the Soviet Union. Soviet soldiers hadn't been paid in years. It is no coincidence that the Soviet Union collapsed right after their withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Even more ironic, the Soviets did NOT invade Afghanistan. The Americans did.
Charlemagne
Holy Roman Emperor
Afghanistan was one of two "stan" countries never under Soviet control. Granted, the Soviets turned Afghanistan into a blasted hell-hole, but did they actually conquer it? No. The war was deemed "unwinnable" by Gorbachev.
SaintLucifer
beer, I want beer
Yet, the Communist regime still sat in Kabul. Hmmm? By 'unwinnable', Gorbachev meant the Mujahadeen couldn't be completely eradicated. How could they be, when they hide like little bitches in the hills? It is the only reason your Stingers were successful. Such a thing would not have been successful in a country like Iraq. By your own logic, the US presence in Afghanistan ALSO is unwinnable, with one difference. The US does not rule Afghanistan. The Soviets did. Every single 'Stan' country was under Soviet control. You are a follower of American propaganda. As of today, Americans claim to have Afghanistan completely under their control, yet, being Canadian, I know otherwise due to the presence of our own forces there. The Canadian Forces are in the greater danger zones than the Americans, thanks to your utter cowardice. Americans fight from the safety of the skies in Afghanistan, whilst we fight virtually hand-to-hand. More cowardice on the part of your people.
Charlemagne
Holy Roman Emperor
Despite the fact that the majority of troops in Afghanistan are American. Despite the fact that Canada is pulling out of the war. Despite the fact that Canada has payed only a fraction of the monetary cost that the U.S. has over there.
SaintLucifer
beer, I want beer
Canada shouldn't have been there in the first place. I find it ironic that the ruling Liberals of the day were the ones who sent our Forces there in the first place, yet are screaming that we get them out now.
As a percentage of our total defense budget, you are an idiot since we are in actuality paying MORE than you Americans are, which is why I e-mailed my MP, demanding our troops pull out NOW. We have no business being there. I do not give a shit what the Taliban does to that shithole. I do not care that Taliban males are raping and mutilating their women. That's their business. What people do in other countries to their population is irrelevant to me, as long as their activities do not affect Canadian policy.
Consumer
Elder Statesman
LOL!
Luci, "Star Wars" was Regan's weapon, one that was never really created, just the idea. The USSR went broke trying to create weapons to counter it. Just like they built the MIG-25 and the TU-160 to counter the XB-70 program that we never had to take beyond the prototype stage to "win" the resource war...and note the decades-long lag in the USSR's response.
The USSR was always built upon the idea that an ideological conquest (like in China...and now disproved even there) would be what would win the world for them, that the "paradise of the proletariat" would be ideologically un-stoppable. The military build-up was the RUSSIAN defensive response after hundreds of years of invasion and military loss. "Never again" was quite logical given their history. However the Communist philosophy was supposed to win on it's own when the "western" powers fell into decadence. Per Lennin's theories (not so much Marx's), it was inevitable, all the USSR had to do was wait us out.
As for the rest of your response, the number of troops we put on the ground in various police actions since WWII only reinforces my point. We put troops on the ground because a bomb can't make a shoot/no-shoot decision. The USA values lives deeply enough to put our OWN service-members in harms way rather than simply the whole "Nuke 'em from orbit" philosophy of someone like Sadam who used chemical and other WMD type weapons to sterilize an area.
The real difference between Canada and the USA with regard to how we fight wars is that we are willing to engage, while Canada has to be dragged kicking and screaming (by us, your Economic and political in fact Masters) into supplying support for such endevors.
Was it a good idea to go into Afghanistan? Nope. Why the Soviets ever bothered is completely beyond me other than to grab it as an invasion gate-way into the middle east or to threaten China.
Luci, "Star Wars" was Regan's weapon, one that was never really created, just the idea. The USSR went broke trying to create weapons to counter it. Just like they built the MIG-25 and the TU-160 to counter the XB-70 program that we never had to take beyond the prototype stage to "win" the resource war...and note the decades-long lag in the USSR's response.
The USSR was always built upon the idea that an ideological conquest (like in China...and now disproved even there) would be what would win the world for them, that the "paradise of the proletariat" would be ideologically un-stoppable. The military build-up was the RUSSIAN defensive response after hundreds of years of invasion and military loss. "Never again" was quite logical given their history. However the Communist philosophy was supposed to win on it's own when the "western" powers fell into decadence. Per Lennin's theories (not so much Marx's), it was inevitable, all the USSR had to do was wait us out.
As for the rest of your response, the number of troops we put on the ground in various police actions since WWII only reinforces my point. We put troops on the ground because a bomb can't make a shoot/no-shoot decision. The USA values lives deeply enough to put our OWN service-members in harms way rather than simply the whole "Nuke 'em from orbit" philosophy of someone like Sadam who used chemical and other WMD type weapons to sterilize an area.
The real difference between Canada and the USA with regard to how we fight wars is that we are willing to engage, while Canada has to be dragged kicking and screaming (by us, your Economic and political in fact Masters) into supplying support for such endevors.
Was it a good idea to go into Afghanistan? Nope. Why the Soviets ever bothered is completely beyond me other than to grab it as an invasion gate-way into the middle east or to threaten China.
SaintLucifer
beer, I want beer
*ROTFLMAO* That American propaganda works very well. No wonder Bush was able to pull off the 'Patriot Act', effectively removing your rights. He knew you American people are sheeple.
The 'Star Wars' program never took off because you simply could not develop the technology necessary to pull it off, AND the Soviets were uttering threats every time you Americans spoke about implementing the program. That effectively made the American military very nervous. You even tried to get Canada involved, where we said 'no thanks' because that would effectively make us a target for the Soviets, who really were not that concerned about us as we were not the slightest threat to them. Implementing the program, IF it worked, would make us that threat. The fact you bought into that propaganda makes me laugh. Even Canadian generals stated publicly whilst your military was wooing us that the system 'cannot work'.
The USSR did NOT go broke trying to counter your propaganda. They went broke building the largest military force the world has ever seen, which it was. They had their fingers in every military conflict the world over, every revolution because they STARTED such conflicts. This costs money. You were not a concern. Their spread of world communism was the very goal of their existence. I find it interesting you bring up the Foxbat. It DID effectively counter your XB-70 program, did it not? Therefore they were successful, just as you worked on ways to counter their 'Backfire' bombers which in the day were more advanced than anything you had. That's why it was called a 'Cold War', you moron. One side trying to top the other. The problem with your post would be that the Soviets were attempting to top not the USA, but the WORLD.
The Soviet Union's military buildup was NOT defensive, you moron. It was clearly OFFENSIVE. They had every intention of conquering the world, even if it meant their own suffering, as long as they attained their singular goal of world communism. The USA was an irrelevancy in that goal. They were concerned with the WORLD. It is American arrogance to believe the Soviets were concerned ONLY with them. I have read many books as written by Soviet generals who defected. These were people who knew more about the Soviet Army than your every intelligence service, who were proven wrong at every turn. I would ask that you read Viktor Suvovorov. He clearly outlined the goals of the Soviet Union. He stated that the Soviet Union already had their own missile shield in the works, one which was far ahead of that in the USA. They were doing this BEFORE the advent of the Star Wars program. Your diatribe about how the Soviet Union believed the West would fall on its own dates from the 1960s, during the era of Kruschev, you moron, when he stated that the West would hang itself with their own rope.
No, you put troops on the ground because your nukes COULD BE COUNTERED, and for no other reason than that. Don't give me the bullshit about 'we care about lives'. If that were true, you wouldn't be in those hotspots in the first place, dumbass. Your comparison with Saddam is idiotic at best, since he was either fighting his own people, or Iran, with which you had no problem therefore there was no danger of his methods of mass destruction would be countered, unlike your situation. Duh?
I especially like your comparison with Canada, and how we need to be dragged 'kicking and screaming' into any conflict. WWI, we were there long before you. WWII, ditto. It was YOU who needed to be dragged kicking and screaming into both wars, such that you claim Pearl Harbour was ALLOWED to be bombed by the Japanese as impetus to get your military to want to fight. Canadians VOLUNTEERED for both the Korean conflict AND the Vietnam War. You had to DRAFT people to fight those wars. You were saying...?
My PWNage of you is now complete.