Saddam's Victims - Warning: Graphic Images

[eloisel]

Saddam's Kurdish Victims Eager to Provide Testimony

By Seb Walker | May 19, 2004

BALISAN VALLEY, Iraq (Reuters) - In a darkened corner of his modest farmhouse, Aziz Mahmoud removes a pair of dark glasses to reveal a legacy of Saddam Hussein's attempt to control Iraq's rebellious Kurds with chemical weapons.

Mahmoud's eye sockets are wizened and sightless -- burned by poisonous gas bombs dropped by Iraqi planes on the Balisan valley in northern Iraq in 1987, devastating the population of his tiny mountain village.

Court, Saddam fall silent with tale of beatings, electric shocks

The woman said she was 16 when the assassination attempt occurred, and that shortly afterward she was summoned to a room in Dujail. There a guard forced her to take her clothes off, "lifted her legs," beat her and administered electric shock.

She said she and her family were transported to Abu Ghraib eventually, where she and children in the prison watched guards humiliate the male prisoners. At one point, she saw someone beat her brother with cables.

Saddam's Victims Take Stand, Recount Torture

Blood poured from head wounds and skin was pale from electric shocks, he testified. Security officials would drip melted plastic hoses on detainees, only to pull it off after it cooled, tearing skin off with it, he said.

"I cannot express all that suffering and pain we faced in the 70 days inside," he said.

Two witnesses later testified from behind a curtain. One of them, identified only as Witness No. 2, said security officials "attached clamps to my thumbs and toes and private areas and tortured me with electricity until foam came out of my mouth."

Mass graves testify to Saddam's evil

According to the USAID report, "Some graves hold a few dozen bodies – their arms lashed together and the bullet holes in the backs of skulls testimony to their execution. Other graves go on for hundreds of meters, densely packed with thousands of bodies."

"The scope of the problem is immense. ... [There are] an estimated 300,000 missing people," says Haglund. "Easily, this is a 50-year job."

The investigators will expose the true nature of what these disappeared Iraqis experienced in their last days. For instance, many of those murdered in the north of Iraq in 1988 were subjected to nerve and mustard gas. Haglund investigated the aftermath of the gassings and explains the way the Iraqi Kurds died. Once the gas is ingested there is "difficulty breathing, burns on the skin ... an agonizing way to die," he says.

There was no end to the gruesome creativity of Saddam's henchmen. As reported by Insight's Timothy W. Meier, Saddam's methods included using hammers to break bones, ripping out fingernails, amputating limbs with a chain saw, crucifixion, throwing live victims in acid baths and ovens, cutting loose wild dogs to attack victims, raping women in the presence of their children and husbands, cutting off a penis or a breast, and stripping children naked and forcing their parents to watch as they were stung by hornets and scorpions. The graves contain evidence of these and other sadistic crimes.

Some of the women, children and elderly men were tripped or fell near the fire and were unceremoniously beaten to death with pipes or thrown into the blazing tires to burn alive. All of the survivors who escaped their would-be executioners had been shot and partially buried, crawling away to their homes under cover of dark and living thereafter in hiding.

2 women tell of torture by Saddam's half brother

two women testified Wednesday that Saddam's intelligence chief had supervised and taken part in torture sessions where they were stripped naked, given electric shocks, hung from the ceiling, and beaten.

 

[Tyrant]

BALISAN VALLEY, Iraq (Reuters) - In a darkened corner of his modest farmhouse, Aziz Mahmoud removes a pair of dark glasses to reveal a legacy of Saddam Hussein's attempt to control Iraq's rebellious Kurds with chemical weapons.

Why did a CIA report conclude that it was more likely that Iran gassed the Kurds during their war?

How tragic, how sad. It completely makes me want to dismiss logic and behave like woman.

 

[eloisel]

Why did a CIA report conclude that it was more likely that Iran gassed the Kurds during their war?


How tragic, how sad. It completely makes me want to dismiss logic and behave like woman.

A) Publish the link to this so called CIA report.
B) First you must posess logic in order to dismiss it.
C) To behave like woman, you must have brain cells in head on shoulders instead of in dick.

 

[Tyrant]

A) Publish the link to this so called CIA report.

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/iran/iran-chemical-1998.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2098.htm

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/saddam/2004/1222halabja.htm

Not credible enough? I can find more if you like. Maybe even the actual report. I have something saved on my comp somewhere...

B) First you must posess logic in order to dismiss it.

I possess logic so that I might dismiss emotional rhetoric based on fuckwits who watch too much TV and have the right to vote, such as yourself.

C) To behave like woman, you must have brain cells in head on shoulders instead of in dick.

A typical female response: Blame the dick, because we don't get enough of it.

 

[eloisel]

Did you actually read those articles or just glance over to the points that support your theory?

In one, Iran supposedly took over the village and then Saddam had the whole town snuffed out with mustard gas. After that, the Iranians unleashed their "blood agent" weapons on the already dead village and retook it.

In another one, supposedly Saddam had the town mustard gassed because they were Kurdish rebels fighting alongside the Iranians. Yep - got to watch out for those 18 month old babies. They are dead shots.

I'll take the eye witness accounts from the people that survived. Saddam sent "news crews" and tried to force them to say it was Iranians that did the deed. However, some of the survivors kept the weapon remnants as proof it was an Iraqi attack.

 

[eloisel]

B) First you must posess logic in order to dismiss it.

I possess logic so that I might dismiss emotional rhetoric based on fuckwits who watch too much TV and have the right to vote, such as yourself.

Babe, your logic is nothing more than somebody else's cut and paste spin with a heaping dose of your own emotional rhetoric.

C) To behave like woman, you must have brain cells in head on shoulders instead of in dick.

A typical female response: Blame the dick, because we don't get enough of it.

It isn't my fault most men think with their dicks first, stomachs second, and brains last.

 

[RobL]

It isn't my fault most men think with their dicks first, stomachs second, and brains last.

Good thing you said most. My stomach gets first dibs in everything.

 

[eloisel]

Good thing you said most. My stomach gets first dibs in everything.

I love a guy that will work for food.

 

[Tyrant]

Did you actually read those articles or just glance over to the points that support your theory?

In one, Iran supposedly took over the village and then Saddam had the whole town snuffed out with mustard gas. After that, the Iranians unleashed their "blood agent" weapons on the already dead village and retook it.

In another one, supposedly Saddam had the town mustard gassed because they were Kurdish rebels fighting alongside the Iranians. Yep - got to watch out for those 18 month old babies. They are dead shots.

That was a bit hasty of me. Here's what I was looking for:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/helms.html

The report is 93 pages, but I append here only the passages having to do with the aforementioned issue:

Iraqi Power and U.S. Security in the Middle East
Excerpt, Chapter 5
U.S. SECURITY AND IRAQI POWER

*snip*

Having looked at all of the evidence that was available to us, we find it impossible to confirm the State Department's claim that gas was used in this instance. To begin with there were never any victims produced. International relief organizations who examined the Kurds -- in Turkey where they had gone for asylum -- failed to discover any. Nor were there ever any found inside Iraq. The claim rests solely on testimony of the Kurds who had crossed the border into Turkey, where they were interviewed by staffers of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

I'll take the eye witness accounts from the people that survived. Saddam sent "news crews" and tried to force them to say it was Iranians that did the deed. However, some of the survivors kept the weapon remnants as proof it was an Iraqi attack.

So now you know more than the people who actually went inside?

 

[Tyrant]

Babe, your logic is nothing more than somebody else's cut and paste spin with a heaping dose of your own emotional rhetoric.

Nope.

It isn't my fault most men think with their dicks first, stomachs second, and brains last.

A far greater percentage of woman are more inept at logic than men. I don't care about it nearly as much as bitter cunts such as yourself do.

 

[eloisel]

A far greater percentage of woman are more inept at logic than men. I don't care about it nearly as much as bitter cunts such as yourself do.

Oh, come here, sugar, and let me pinch your little fat cheeks. You're so cute when you call me a bitter cunt.

 

[Tyrant]

Does it remind you that you're a woman?

 

[eloisel]

Does it remind you that you're a woman?

Ha, ha, ha ... I don't need a reminder of that, dear heart. I've been one so long it is ingrained in my thought process. It's just, gosh darnit, you're so adorable - whining about staying on topic, being relevant, trying to direct conversations into your narrow minded view on how things should be, trying to bitch slap me with uncreative slurs like "bitter cunt", touting yourself such the logical debater when the majority of what you have to share is pilfered from someone else's writing instrument, twisted by your self-righteous indignant emotional rhetoric. You're just so damned 19.

 

[Tyrant]

Tha'ts quite a ruffling over a simple question. You're known for being verbose but surely you needn't defend your womanhood for me? You don't sound bitter all, IMO.

Now if you'll excuse me for a moment, I have to go get more beer for myself. It takes a bit of work to slow down to the intellectual pace of most TKers, the females in particular.

 

[Sarek]

To behave like woman, you must have brain cells in head on shoulders instead of in dick.

Or take away reason and accountability.

 

[Tyrant]

As you also know, I believe there are serious questions regarding our behavior toward Iraq that go back further. You would agree, I think, that at the very least our State Department gave a "green light" to Saddam Hussein to go into Kuwait in August 1990. The more I read of the events of the period, the more I believe history will record that the Gulf War was unnecessary, perhaps even that Saddam Hussein was willing to retreat back to his borders, but our government decided we preferred the war to the status quo ante.

In my previous correspondence with you on this matter, I had been in a quandary about the state of our relations with Baghdad during that critical period. In the months immediately preceding the "green light" given by our Ambassador, April Glaspie, a number of your Senate colleagues including Bob Dole had traveled to Baghdad, met with Saddam, and found him to be a head of state worthy of support. Even Sen. Howard Metzenbaum [D-OH], a Jewish liberal and staunch supporter of Israel, gave him a seal of approval. What disturbs me even now, Jesse, is that these meetings occurred after the Senate Foreign Relations committee had accused Iraq of using poison gas against its own people, i.e., the Kurds. Like all other Americans, in recent years I had assumed that what I read in the papers was true about Iraq gassing its own people. Once the war drums again began beating last November, I decided to read up on the history, and found Iraq denied having used gas against its own people. Furthermore, I heard that a Pentagon investigation at the time had also turned up no hard evidence of Saddam gassing his own people.

Desperate times.

There's always a 'Hitler' out there who needs to be stopped, huh?

 

[eloisel]

Drat ... I'm out of time to give you a proper response on the topic of Saddam's victims. My reason - the cats hold me accountable when their food dish is empty and there is nothing in the house to fill it up with. So, I'll have to come back to this later, after I've taken care of a number of things for which I am responsible.

First - did you find the CIA report you wrote of earlier? I'd like to see it.

Second - at one time under Saddam's rule, Iraq was of favored nation status because of their financial status - no debts and tons of money in the bank, high literacy, high living standards, etc. The U.S. had a particular gripe with the Iranians because of their ousting of the Shah, seizure of American assets, and holding American citizens hostage. Saddam had issues with Iran, too, over land. Some of Saddam's actions were more than likely downplayed, whitewashed, or denied to make him less deplorable to the American people so we'd agree to back him in his fight against Iran, which was of mutual interest to us.

The fact is, Saddam gassed the Kurdish rebels. It is akin to Bush gassing the entire city you live in because you hate him so.

 

[Tyrant]

Drat ... I'm out of time to give you a proper response on the topic of Saddam's victims.

Really? I question the fact if they are Saddam's victim's, and ms. bitter twat writes an entire essay which I won't ever bother to read and chooses to purport that I am somehow at fault for not reading her dreary nonsense, stemming from false conclusion. A typical woman, governed by her mediocre heart.

Fuck off, you stupid Texan septic, and let us normals, the ones who earn the right to vote through study and dedication to geopolitics, resolve these issues.

 

[eloisel]

Interesting skills you lack there.

 

[eloisel]

Really? I question the fact if they are Saddam's victim's, and ms. bitter twat writes an entire essay which I won't ever bother to read and chooses to purport that I am somehow at fault for not reading her dreary nonsense, stemming from false conclusion. A typical woman, governed by her mediocre heart.

Fuck off, you stupid Texan septic, and let us normals, the ones who earn the right to vote through study and dedication to geopolitics, resolve these issues.

Your logic is flawed. Your attack ad hominim.