The Founders...

[Caitriona]

...must have understood the nature of mankind extremely well. I think it is why the Constitution is such a successful document over all. It basically say... "Trust no one".

“A small knowledge of human nature will convince us, that, with far the greatest part of mankind, interest is the governing principle; and that almost every man is more or less, under its influence. Motives of public virtue may for a time, or in particular instances, actuate men to the observance of a conduct purely disinterested; but they are not of themselves sufficient to produce persevering conformity to the refined dictates and obligations of social duty. Few men are capable of making a continual sacrifice of all views of private interest, or advantage, to the common good. It is vain to exclaim against the depravity of human nature on this account; the fact is so, the experience of every age and nation has proved it and we must in a great measure, change the constitution of man, before we can make it otherwise. No institution, not built on the presumptive truth of these maxims can succeed.†– George Washington

 

[Neil]

I had an epiphany of sorts yesterday when I read this. And it seems rather obvious upon reflection...

I don't know that the founders really had that much in the way of special insight into the human condition, or nature of man. As we grow older, we learn a lot of hard lessons. People suck and nobody truly knows anybody. <--Sad but true.

People are flawed, petty, jealous, selfish, greedy, cowardly, et al. Especially those in power. I have a very hard time believing in selfless behavior from our ruling class; invariably corruption creeps in. Always. It’s a constant. Self-preservation demands it!

And it is for that exact reason that these important documents hold us – as a society - accountable to a “higher power,” a higher ideal, something we can all strive for, to be better, to be MORE than our flaws dictate.

Unfortunately, most of us no longer agree on that ideal. Everyone carries their own God within them, their own faith, their own guidance… and sometime that “ideal” is driven by profit and personal interest, eating away at the foundation and direction of the ‘whole.’

On paper, everything looks good. Holding mortal man to that vision, however, is a tricky and dangerous business, indeed.

 

[jack]

These gentlemen were truly "revolutionary" in every sense of the word. I've been doing American History again because my son is in the middle of it, and we have a great time talking about what they are "teaching" him, and what probably actually happened.

It's pretty strange, they're spoonfeeding the kids lies, or myths so distorted by the retelling that it's like a completely different story, which is surprising.

 

[Neil]

I've really been thinking about studying up on the founders. A fascinating group of individuals in a very fascinating time...

 

[Big Dick McGee]

These gentlemen were truly "revolutionary" in every sense of the word. I've been doing American History again because my son is in the middle of it, and we have a great time talking about what they are "teaching" him, and what probably actually happened.

It's pretty strange, they're spoonfeeding the kids lies, or myths so distorted by the retelling that it's like a completely different story, which is surprising.

:roll:

Good Lord, we really need to nuke granola states like Vermont.

 

[CaptainWacky]

I thought this was about DS9.