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Tis a Global War on terror

Ogami

Ogami

New member
Some choose to believe that each incidence of islamic terrorism is an isolated case, none of them are to be taken as a whole. We're just supposed to tut-tut each individual instance of terrorism and say "Isn't that a shame. Oh well."

While some westerners can choose to ignore the war on terror, the west's enemies do not consider their acts isolated, they believe themselves to be engaged in a global holy war, and the more gullible westerners they can line up, the better.

Hey Zodiac, Mentalist, Question, and the rest of you: The Iranian and Syrian presidents see the Israeli/Hezbollah fight as a defeat for America! They see the global war on terror for what it is, and laugh at you in failing to recognize them as your mortal enemies. They want your heads!

Ahmadinejad says Hezbollah victorious

TEHRAN, Iran - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Tuesday that Hezbollah has "hoisted the banner of victory" over Israel and toppled U.S.-led plans for the Middle East.

Iran and Syria are the main backers of the Islamic militant group. Ahmadinejad struck a tone similar to an earlier address in Damascus by Syrian President Bashar Assad, who said Washington's plans for the region have become "an illusion" after the 34-day conflict in Lebanon ended Monday with a cease-fire.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060815/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_iran

1,000 Indonesian Jihadists enroute to Lebanon
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailnational.asp?fileid=20060815.G07&irec=6

Pro-Hezbollah Rally in Toronto Canada
http://girlontheright.com/2006/08/hezbollah-on-our-streets-in-our-cities.html

German TV films 'Green Helmet Guy' staging Photographs
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/08/...ip-of-green-helmet-staging-the-scene-at-qana/

UK Muslims demand Sharia Law
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=400605&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

from a column in the Jerusalem Post:
IT IS important to note that the Syrians and Iranians were able to engage in one of the biggest terrorism-sponsorship events in history, at no cost whatsoever - a point that will surely not escape the attention of those countries' leaders. Not only did they avoid any direct material damage to their countries, there was no serious international criticism or call for sanctions.

Those with a macabre sense of humor might note that paragraph 15 of the UN cease-fire resolution calls on member countries - including Syria and Iran - to ensure that arms are not smuggled into Lebanon.

Does anybody believe anything will be done when Syria and Iran inevitably break that provision? Will such a violation even be reported, much less punished?

On the public relations front, Israel came in for far more condemnation than Teheran and Damascus. This in itself is a victory for the latter. Imagine being able to arm, train and incite a terrorist group to violate an international border and deliberately target another country's civilians, suffer no cost, and make your victim come out looking worse!

In the terrorism sponsorship business it doesn't get any better than that.
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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525865426&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
 
Palestinians being named after Hezbollah
By DIAA HADID, Associated Press Writer
Tue Aug 15, 2:22 PM ET

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Nahed Ghurani worried that naming his new son Hezbollah might cause the boy problems when he grows up. But young Hezbollah Ghurani won't be the only Palestinian in this predicament.

In a spasm of celebration for Hezbollah's monthlong battle against Israel, many parents in Gaza City have named their children after the Islamic militant group and its leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah.

In Gaza City's Shifa Hospital, six Palestinian women have named their babies Hassan, Nasrallah, or Hassan Nasrallah, according to maternity records from when fighting began July 12 to when a cease-fire took effect Monday.

About half a dozen more named their babies Hezbollah, Beirut, or Promise — after the name of the military campaign Hezbollah staged against Israel, "The True Promise," records showed.

In Gaza, as in many parts of the Arab and Muslim world, Nasrallah has seen his popularity rise dramatically by holding his own against the region's most powerful army.

Ghurani, the new father and a wealthy Palestinian fruit importer, said his wife gave birth before hostilities began, but they didn't name their child until the fighting was at full pitch.

"My wife wanted to call the baby Nasrallah, but I wanted Hezbollah — to commemorate the entire resistance," he said smiling.

"My friends said with this name he won't be able to work, or travel abroad. I have business in Israel as well — but you know, there is a nationalist spirit in me," he said.

Ghurani said he also tried to change his 6-year-old son's name from Islam to Nasrallah, but "couldn't find the right papers."

"The next son — we'll call him Ahmadinejad," Ghurani said, in honor of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has called for the complete annihilation of Israel.

Nasrallah means "Victory of God" in Arabic, and some Palestinian women think that's exactly what happened in the recent war.

"It's a hope for victory that encourages women to do this," maternity ward nurse Fiza Zaanin said.

"Just like when women named their children Saddam when he promised to destroy Israel," she explained, referring to ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein who launched missiles at Israel during the first Gulf War.

Her own neighbor named her son Hassan Nasrallah, she said.

But local traditions, Zaanin said, prevented more women from naming their babies after the Hezbollah leader.

"Normally people wait for a great leader to die. When Sheikh Ahmed Yassin died, almost all the women giving birth that day called their sons Ahmed, Yassin or Sheik Ahmed, to immortalize the Hamas leader," she said.

Copyright © 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060815/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_nasrallah_babies
 
WARNING GRAPHIC

Wilkepedia has a new video showing Green Helmet pulling a child out from under adults so he can parade the corpse back and forth for the hordes of western media:

WARNING GRAPHIC
http://www.wa3ad.org/video/other/majzarat_qana2006.wmv
WARNING GRAPHIC

I didn't want to watch it further but Newsbusters gives some things to look for:

At 0:53 there is new footage of Mr. Green Helmet serving as director of the scene. He's standing over some victims and gesturing to someone off camera. One thing is for sure - he is in NO HURRY in this footage.

At 8:29 we see Mr. Green Helmet taking off for his run with the little girl in the multicolored pants. What makes this interesting is Mr. Green Helmet is standing still with the child, then turns and starts off at a quick pace. As Mr. GH turns, a cameraman crosses behind him. It is obvious that Mr. GH was posing with the child for the cameraman prior to his "run".

The footage continues with Mr. White TShirt standing at the "staging area" looking like he is lost. He then turns and takes the little girl in pink pj's from another man and starts off on his "famous" rescue run.

At approx 8:56 there is a longer version of White TShirt holding the little girl in the multicolored pants by her upper arms with her little body just dangling. Then Mr. Green Helmet comes up and takes the little girl from him (obviously the video is not in real time sequence).

There is also an interview with Mr. Green Helmet (not the same one we've seen before). This time he is out of breath and sweating like he has just ran two miles.


This proves that the photos were setup photo ops to specifically fan the flames of Israeli hatred. The children were used as props and their bodies treated with a total lack of respect. The crush of photographers surrounding the "rescue workers" shows their complicity with the set up photos. The AP and its comrades enabled the terrorist propaganda and they did it willingly. This time the pictures don't lie...
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The fact of the matter is people with your world view is the reason extremism is growing both on the right and on the left. Admit it or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a response, albeit an evil response, but a response nonetheless to the short-sighted anti-intellectual and hypocritical world view espoused by people like yourself, Ogami. Your worldview is naive at best, and down right dumb at worst. People like yourself remind me of all the dumb kids that didn't pay attention in school nor do their homework, and are now overreacting foolishly and blindly to sociopolitical flare-ups that pop up in the world every day. These flare-ups only appear to be the worst we've seen because of the nature of the interconnectedness of the world nowadays due to the speed and the sources from which information can be spontaneously disseminated nowadays.

Please school yourself. You're making things worse than they should be.

The more you push against the evil of fundamentalism the more powerful they get. This is not a cold-war style struggle between economic philosophies of capitalism vs. socialism. This, rather, is a "struggle of the mind" which calls for "using our minds" to eradicate. I wish you and the people in power right now would use their brain.
 
Grammour Boy wrote:

The fact of the matter is people with your world view is the reason extremism is growing both on the right and on the left. Admit it or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a response, albeit an evil response, but a response nonetheless to the short-sighted anti-intellectual and hypocritical world view espoused by people like yourself, Ogami.

Of course. I do not seek ceasefires with Islamic fundamentalist terrorism, I want all-out war. This global war of terror was already declared by our enemies, the question is whether the west will 'join in'. So far, we haven't. The west's response to global terrorism has been piecemeal, a bit here and a bit there. We're not facing an islamic conspiracy but a common cause. Our enemies are united and determined, while the west is weak and divided. This is why they strike, because they perceive the weakness of democracies.

How weak are the west's democracies? So weak that terrorists can live in the US and the UK, enjoy our freedoms, our comforts, the rights our countries live by, only to plot how many of us they can murder. It's perverse, not to mention downright inhospitable.

Your worldview is naive at best, and down right dumb at worst.

You want to understand Islamic terror, I want to kill it. And damn their reasons.

People like yourself remind me of all the dumb kids that didn't pay attention in school nor do their homework, and are now overreacting foolishly and blindly to sociopolitical flare-ups that pop up in the world every day.

An under-reaction to terror is what caused 9/11. Now you say we are reacting too much? We're not doing enough, and our enemies believe they and their kind are on the ascendance.

These flare-ups only appear to be the worst we've seen because of the nature of the interconnectedness of the world nowadays due to the speed and the sources from which information can be spontaneously disseminated nowadays.

So since Bush and Blair are over-reacting to islamic terror, what would be your more measured, more mature, more reasoned, more inclusive response to global islamic terror? What demands of theirs will appease them? If you have the answers, and our team currently doesn't, then speak plainly! Dummies like us need all the good advice you can offer.

This is not a cold-war style struggle between economic philosophies of capitalism vs. socialism. This, rather, is a "struggle of the mind" which calls for "using our minds" to eradicate. I wish you and the people in power right now would use their brain.

This is a world governed by the aggressive use of force. What this means is that those who are involved with islamic terrorism have no respect for peace gestures, appeasement, ceasefires, rapproachment, diversity, or any of the traditional gestures of the Left.

It is a grand delusion of the Left that if we just had some "nice" president like Kerry or Gore or Dean, the terrorists would somehow love us and play nice and we'd all have a happy world. You are mistaken, Question, Grammour Boy, and the rest. It is not the policies of Bush that inflame islamic terrorism, it is the appeasement mentality of the worldwide socialist left. Look at how hard France and the UK have worked to appease their muslim populations at home, and look at the result! Demands for Sharia law, islamic culture to supercede the 'decadent' western culture. What is happening in France to this day is the fate of any western country foolish enough to appease islamic fundamentalism instead of fighting them.

The terrorists have been quite honest and up front with who they are and how they want to remake the world into an islamic paradise. Or at least an islamic world that matches their twisted interpretation of the Koran. Either stand up to oppose and fight them, or meekly offer your neck. I think you're offering your neck.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

-Ogami
 
Ogami said:
You want to understand Islamic terror, I want to kill it. And damn their reasons.
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I want to understand it so I can eradicate it at the source before it has a chance to get started. You want to kill it without understanding the reasons for it, and in so doing you're making it stronger. Our end is the same, only our means differ. Mine has a good chance to achieve what you crave, yours will only exacerbate what you most hate.
 
I would have gladly continued engaging you on this, Ogami. But, with all due respect, it appears to me that you are ill-prepared to partake in a difficult debate such as this one whose basis is deeply rooted in complex ideas with important geopolitical and historical ramifications. Judging by your posting history here on TK, you are evidently either incognizant of these important but complex issues or you simply refuse to acknowledge them for whatever personal or ideological reason.

Good luck with that.
 
Grammour Boy wrote:

I would have gladly continued engaging you on this, Ogami. But, with all due respect, it appears to me that you are ill-prepared to partake in a difficult debate such as this one whose basis is deeply rooted in complex ideas with important geopolitical and historical ramifications.

Or because you can only say "I hate Bush and those who don't" so many ways. Real geo-complexity in that!

Judging by your posting history here on TK, you are evidently either incognizant of these important but complex issues or you simply refuse to acknowledge them for whatever personal or ideological reason.

I can post in a P.C. manner too. Watch: "All of the problems in the Middle East are the fault of the short-sighted policies of World Terrorist #1 George Bush and his lapdog Blair. If we would only understand the feelings of the terrorists and feel their pain, we could all get along."

See? It's easy to post in a politically-correct manner, I just wonder at how much deep thinking it takes to say that every day.

-Ogami
 
Ogami is a big fan of False Dilemmas. No point trying to discuss a damn thing with him, because he will never read what anyone actually writes, preferring instead to read what he wishes we were writing.
 
Grammour Boy wrote:

Thank you. You have just made my point for me. You are not ready for this debate. You lack the range of vision.

What a laugh. All I've had on this board is people calling me stupid for not agreeing with them. I just finished reading "Wars of the Ancient Greeks" edited by John Keegan. It's obvious from this book that there is a lot of ground for historians to disagree. But I highly doubt any of them settled debates by declaring to the other historian, "Well you're just stupid."
______________________

The Question wrote:

Ogami is a big fan of False Dilemmas. No point trying to discuss a damn thing with him, because he will never read what anyone actually writes, preferring instead to read what he wishes we were writing.

Well let's see Question's most recent intellectual submission to historical debate: "It's only your absolute blind fanatacism that leads you to think so."

I can read what you're writing, but you spend all your time talking about me instead of the topic. I guess I'm more fascinating, or that you know you'll lose on the topic.

-Ogami
 
Depressing pattern
By Victor Davis Hanson
August 12, 2006

The reactions and media coverage coming out of the West regarding this latest war in the Middle East are as bewildering as they are instructive.

Rep. John Dingell, Michigan Democrat, for example, recently said, "I don't take sides for or against Hezbollah or for or against Israel."

Meanwhile, the Western news agency Reuters, responding to scrutiny by bloggers, withdrew wire photos taken by a freelance photographer of a smoky and burning Beirut. Reuters had failed to catch the freelancer's doctoring of the photos to emphasize unduly the damage from Israeli bombs.

And the Associated Press notes that initially reported Lebanese claims of 40 "civilians" killed by Israeli air strikes at Houla, Lebanon, in fact, were mistaken -- and that the latest reports have lowered the death toll to one.

In Qana, where the Israeli military had hit an apartment building (and were quickly censured by European statesmen), the number of civilian fatalities reported also kept decreasing as reports were scrutinized. Plus, we have learned that several hours lapsed between the dropping of the bombs and the fatal collapse of the building, raising further questions about the relationship between the bombing and the fatalities that followed. Finally, based on photographs from the scene, the onsite rescue appeared staged for reporters.

These discrepancies suggest we have little idea what actually happened on the ground there -- other than that Qana has been a favored missile-launching site against Israel, as a recent deadly aerial assault from there on Haifa attests.

There is a depressing pattern here. The sources for Western erroneous reports and faked pictures always seem to exaggerate the damage to Lebanon -- but never to Israel.

Likewise, Western news agencies rarely list a precise number of Hezbollah losses, instead lumping them in with civilian fatalities. Does that mean that someone who launches a missile in Levis and sneakers is not a combatant?

In addition, the history and nature of Hezbollah do not matter to many in the West.

Knowingly or not, news outlets continue to spread Hezbollah's propaganda. One wonders if Westerners remember or know that, until September 11, 2001, Hezbollah had killed more Americans than had any other terrorist organization.

Most ignore as well that Hezbollah precipitated the present crisis by kidnapping and killing Israeli soldiers, and launching missiles against Israel's cities.

In retaliation, the Israeli Defense Forces use precision bombs to target combatants and try to avoid civilian casualties (though the latter is nearly impossible against an enemy who doesn't wear uniforms and uses non-combatants as "human shields"). In contrast, every random missile launched by Hezbollah is intended to hit a civilian target.

On one side of this conflict is a true democracy that was attacked. On the other are terrorists who hijacked the sovereign government of Lebanon, instituted theocratic rule over a third of the country -- and started a war.

Hezbollah, of course, has been enabled in large part thanks to Iranian petro-dollars and intimidation. But the nature of Hezbollah's patrons doesn't seem to matter to many Westerners, either.

Those now calling for "dialogue" with the "major players" ignore that Iran promises to wipe out Israel. The French foreign minister was quick to praise the regional role of theocratic Iran as "stabilizing."

Then there's Hezbollah's other patron, Syria, a country that brutally occupied Lebanon, harbors terrorists and is suspected of being behind the assassination of Lebanese reformist Prime Minister Rafik Hariri.

So, what then does matter to so many Westerners about this war?

Our fear, of course. We want to avoid messy complications like stirring up another September 11 or Madrid bombing, spiking oil prices to over $80 a barrel, or treading on politically incorrect ground by criticizing the "other" of the former Third World.

The Western press -- usually so careful to condemn hate speech -- is utterly silent about Arab racism. But a European paper recently published a cartoon portraying Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert as a Nazi, secure that no rabbi would issue threats that could cost the editors their heads.

Still, when this is all over, we should not worry about the survival of Israel. For weeks, pundits have been lecturing how canny and adept Hezbollah has proved -- and how a clumsy Israel could only respond by destroying Lebanon's infrastructure. Yet, when the dust settles, the world will learn that Lebanon outside Hezbollah's domain is not destroyed. And, one hopes, those who have suffered in the Hezbollah-controlled south will reexamine their support for a terrorist organization that has brought them -- and itself -- to near ruin.

Instead far more worrisome is the moral crisis in the West itself. If so many of its politicians, intellectuals and media will not or cannot fathom moral differences in this war, they will hardly be able to see them anywhere else.

Victor Davis Hanson is a nationally syndicated columnist and a classicist and historian at Stanford University's Hoover Institution and author of "A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War."
© 2006 The Washington Times, LLC.
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http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20060811-090004-3107r.htm
 
Victor Davis Hanson is a real treat to read, and I truly wish that Bush critics had someone as cogent on their side, but they don't. So they go on hand-wringing over 'random', 'unconnected' Islamic terrorist events, while people like VDH have it down...

Excuse After Excuse
By Victor Davis Hanson
August 17, 2006

What makes two-dozen British Muslims want to blow up thousands of innocent passengers on jumbo jets? Why does al-Qaida plan hourly to kill civilians? And why does oil-rich Iran wish to "wipe out" Israel?

In short, it's the old blame game, one that over the past century has taken multiple forms.

Once, a tired whine of Islamists was that European colonialists and American oilmen rigged global commerce to "rob" the Middle East of its natural wealth. But they were pretty quiet when the price of crude oil jumped from around an expensive $25 a barrel to an exorbitant $75.

Recently, oil exporters of the Middle East have taken in around an extra $500 billon each year in windfall profits beyond the old lucrative income. It is one of the largest, most sudden -- and least remarked upon -- transfers of capital in history.

Another old excuse for Islamist anger was the claim the West had favored autocrats -- the Shah, the House of Saud, the Kuwaiti royal family -- in a cynical desire for cheap gas and to prop up strong anti-communist allies.

Some of that complaint was certainly accurate. But since Sept. 11, America has ensured democracy in Afghanistan, spent billions and over 2,500 lives fostering freedom in Iraq, pressured Syria to leave Lebanon, and lectured long-time allies in Egypt and the Gulf to reform. For all this, we are now considered crude interventionists, even when our efforts may well pave the way for radical Muslims to gain legitimacy through plebiscites.

Islamists have and continue today to gripe about Western infidels encroaching on Muslim lands. Osama bin Laden attacked because of American troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, or so he said. Hamas and Hezbollah resorted to terror to free Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank, or so they said.

Yet, nothing much has changed since the United States pulled its combat troops out of Saudi Arabia, or after the Israelis departed Gaza and Lebanon, and announced planned withdrawals from parts of the West Bank. Meanwhile, the elected Iraqi government wants American soldiers to stay longer (while the latest polls suggest the American public doesn't agree).

Then there is moaning that the West treats its Muslim immigrants unfairly, despite evidence to the contrary. After all, Muslims build mosques and madrassas all over Europe and the United States; yet Christians cannot worship in Saudi Arabia or have missionaries in Iran. Western residents or immigrants in most Arab nations would not dare demonstrate on behalf of Israel. But in Michigan last week, largely Arab-American crowds chanted "Hezbollah" -- despite that terrorist organization's long history of murdering Americans.

Another Islamist grumble is that the West supports only Israel. Again, that's hardly true. The Europeans gave plenty of aid to the PLO and Hamas, and their hostility to Israel is well-established. The United States make no bones about aiding Israel, but it also has given tremendous amounts of money to the Palestinians, Egypt ($50 billion so far) and Jordan. And without the United States, Kuwait would be the 19th province of Iraq, the Taliban would rule Afghanistan, Saddam and his sons would still slaughter Kurds and there might not be any Muslims left at all in Kosovo or Bosnia.

The one thing, however, that the United States cannot do to please Islamists is change its liberal character and traditions of Western tolerance. And isn't that the real story behind all these perceived grievances and phantom hurts: the intrusive dynamism of freewheeling Western, and particularly American, culture?

Both its low form of girly magazines and punk rock as well as its impressive literature, art, commerce and technology now saturate the world. And why not? American radical individualism appeals to the innate human desire for freedom and unbridled expression. Westernization subverts most hierarchs, especially in the reactionary world of Islamic fundamentalism, where the mullah, family patriarch or state autocrat can't keep a lid on it. Instantaneous communications have also brought to an insecure Middle Eastern society firsthand views of how much wealthier, freer and more tolerant the outside world is when it is democratic and transparent.

But instead of providing a blueprint for reform, these revelations only incite envy and anger from millions who are advised that parity with the West is found instead by retreating further into 7th-century religious purity.

So never mind the trillions in petrodollars, billions in aid and concessions. Unless we change our very character, or the Middle East achieves success and confidence through Western-style democracy and economic reform, expect more tired scapegoating and violence from radical discontents, from Lebanon to London -- and well beyond.

Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and author, most recently, of "A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War." You can reach him by e-mailing [email protected].
©2006 Tribune Media Services
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/08/excuse_after_excuse.html
 
Grammour Boy wrote:

Oh, so you do know how to use the Board's quoting feature! So why don't you use it when responding to posts here?

Because this is how I've been responding to message board posts like this since 1997. Back when message boards didn't even have the quote feature, but they did have italics.

Are you saying this would make my posts more comprehensible? :P :P

-Ogami
 
Ogami said:
Grammour Boy wrote:

Oh, so you do know how to use the Board's quoting feature! So why don't you use it when responding to posts here?

Because this is how I've been responding to message board posts like this since 1997. Back when message boards didn't even have the quote feature, but they did have italics.

Are you saying this would make my posts more comprehensible? :P :P

-Ogami
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Well, try adopting new technologies. They are not always an evil. Sometimes they even enhance the enjoyment of certain situations; and in your case, it would make your posts more legible.
 
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