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RED arrived!
- Thread starter Friday
- Start date
Friday
Bazinga!
Okay, I have watched the film, and I've come away with a shitload of questions.
So, 6, put on your Professor cap, and help me sort thru this stuff.
1) Why is it a bad sign that Valentine wins the jackpot in the diner? I noticed a jackpot is shown towards the end of the film, also.
2) This is more an observation than a question. The exchange between the old judge and Valentine about her brother really hit home for me, for personal reasons. Just Be. Good advice.
3) Who was that in the newspaper photo that Valentine called her mom/brother about? I was lost, there.
4) Okay, what was up with the old and young judges? It seems their lives paralleled too much to be coincidence. What am I missing? The pen, the snapping of the suspenders, the love of dogs, the elastic breaking, causing a book to fall on a page that was asked on the final exam, the blonde that was in an accident, all add up to....something. Help!
5) Another observation. This Michel dude sounded like an ass. Maybe it's the name. Heh...
I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, with the commentary on. Maybe that will help me understand the film. I can't help but think I'm missing a lot, because I didn't walk away from this film thinking it was great. Good, maybe, but not great.
One more thing....I agree with you about Valentine. If ya know what I mean.
So, 6, put on your Professor cap, and help me sort thru this stuff.
1) Why is it a bad sign that Valentine wins the jackpot in the diner? I noticed a jackpot is shown towards the end of the film, also.
2) This is more an observation than a question. The exchange between the old judge and Valentine about her brother really hit home for me, for personal reasons. Just Be. Good advice.
3) Who was that in the newspaper photo that Valentine called her mom/brother about? I was lost, there.
4) Okay, what was up with the old and young judges? It seems their lives paralleled too much to be coincidence. What am I missing? The pen, the snapping of the suspenders, the love of dogs, the elastic breaking, causing a book to fall on a page that was asked on the final exam, the blonde that was in an accident, all add up to....something. Help!
5) Another observation. This Michel dude sounded like an ass. Maybe it's the name. Heh...
I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, with the commentary on. Maybe that will help me understand the film. I can't help but think I'm missing a lot, because I didn't walk away from this film thinking it was great. Good, maybe, but not great.
One more thing....I agree with you about Valentine. If ya know what I mean.
Friday
Bazinga!
One more thing (heh, that's a lie)...
The old judge as a manipulator of Fate (yeah, I've been doing some reading, since Prof seems to be off somewhere having a RL 
).
My first inclination was to think that the Old Judge was God, or an angel., manipulating the events around him (arranging his dog be run over, turning himself in so there'd be a trial, rtherefore arranging Auguste's girlfroend to meet another man, and therefore leaving Auguste open to meet Valentine), him looking at her ferry ticket...why? To see where she is sitting?
But then I realized if that were the case, there would be very little character development for him. An angel, ala It's A Wonderful Life, only serves to move the story along....he doesn't become part of the story. That would leave a very big hole in Kieslowski's tapestry of events, IMO. And it would make the old judge become just a sad old angel, instead of a man redeeemed at the end.
Huh...
The old judge as a manipulator of Fate (yeah, I've been doing some reading, since Prof seems to be off somewhere having a RL
).My first inclination was to think that the Old Judge was God, or an angel., manipulating the events around him (arranging his dog be run over, turning himself in so there'd be a trial, rtherefore arranging Auguste's girlfroend to meet another man, and therefore leaving Auguste open to meet Valentine), him looking at her ferry ticket...why? To see where she is sitting?
But then I realized if that were the case, there would be very little character development for him. An angel, ala It's A Wonderful Life, only serves to move the story along....he doesn't become part of the story. That would leave a very big hole in Kieslowski's tapestry of events, IMO. And it would make the old judge become just a sad old angel, instead of a man redeeemed at the end.
Huh...
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Friday said:
Kieslowski likes to do little things like this with luck--or whatever it is. Chance? Fate? God? He never answers these questions, or if he does, he does so in a way that just raises even more difficult questions.
But basically, Valentine is superstitious, and she appears to believe that she has a certain amount of luck alloted to her. When she wins at the slot machine, she has bad luck in her personal life. Notice that when the jackpot is shown at the end of the film, Kieslowski is filming in deep focus, and we see Auguste's car speeding off to his destiny, which is to find Karin (I think that's his girlfriend's name) in bed with another man. Valentine's luck--her fate--is somehow tied to Auguste's.
Actually, notice the use of deep focus in most of the film--this means, by the way, the objects in the foreground and objects in the background are in equally clear focus. We are constantly reminded of the proximity of Valentine and Auguste and the forces that will bring them together.
Also notice how many coins are in the jar where Valentine puts her winnings. She's had a lot of bad luck in her personal life.
"Etre." I love that scene. It calls to mind a scene from an earlier Kieslowski film, Blind Chance, in which the main character, seeking religion, prays to God that He just Be.
That was a picture of her brother shooting up heroin. Watch the deleted scenes--they make that part a little bit clearer.
Well that's the big question, isn't it? My answer to my students is "What do you want it to be?" Do you want some sort of mystical explanation, that the Judge has been given the opportunity to come back in time and fix his life? Who gave him that chance? God? Did it come from within himself?
Or does the Judge simply recognize--through his listening to phone calls--that Auguste's relationship with Karin is taking the same route his failed relationship did?
Does the Judge possess some sort of clairvoyance?
You have to decide what you want there. If you're religious, Kieslowski gives you a gap in which to insert your religious beliefs. If you're not, Kieslowski provides you with just enough to come up with rational explanations for the whole thing. Sort of. I side with those who see something mystical there; Kieslowski spent most of his career trying to remind his viewers that "there's more on heaven and earth than is dreamed of in [their] philosophy."
Yeah, my female students detest Michel, and surprisingly, some blame Valentine for putting up with him. The nice guy in Poland who put him up after his car got stolen is Karol Karol, the main character from Blanc, by the way.
I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, with the commentary on. Maybe that will help me understand the film. I can't help but think I'm missing a lot, because I didn't walk away from this film thinking it was great. Good, maybe, but not great.
One more thing....I agree with you about Valentine. If ya know what I mean.
Watch it again. And again. And listen to Insdorf's commentary track. She can be a bit pedantic, and she's overly hostile to seeing religious overtones in Kieslowski, but she points out a lot of the little details and also helps to place the film within Kieslowski's oeuvre.
You also have to get used to Kieslowski's pacing. It's definitely not a Hollywood film. His slow explorations of character require you to get mentally prepared before you sit down and watch, particularly if you've been engaged in the typical American pasttime of overstimulating yourself.
And yeah, Valentine is a sweetheart. So's Irene Jacob, from what I've been able to gather.
But, if you ask me more questions, you'll trigger more thoughts on my part, and I'll try to explain to you from a filmic point of view why the film is as masterful as it is.
And finally, strange advice from me, but you must feel when you watch Kieslowski. Feel the beauty of the connection that Valentine and the Judge are able to forge, the way that Valentine is, literally, "En toute circonstance, fraicheur de vivre!"
Blindgroping
U mad 'bro?
What movie is this?
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Friday said:One more thing (heh, that's a lie)...
The old judge as a manipulator of Fate (yeah, I've been doing some reading, since Prof seems to be off somewhere having a RL
My first inclination was to think that the Old Judge was God, or an angel., manipulating the events around him (arranging his dog be run over, turning himself in so there'd be a trial, rtherefore arranging Auguste's girlfroend to meet another man, and therefore leaving Auguste open to meet Valentine), him looking at her ferry ticket...why? To see where she is sitting?
Presumably, it is interference from the Judge's surveillance equipment that causes the static on Valentine's car radio, which causes her to hit Rita.
He's definitely not an angel. If he's anything mystical, he's the old Auguste sent back to fix his life.
That's the general response to Kieslowski. He forces you to think. That's one of the reasons why I love him.
Friday
Bazinga!
I know what deep focus is, smarty. I also know what a one shot, two shot, long shot, and on over the shoulder shot are.Number_6 said:
I noticed that valentine and Aguste keep just missing each other. I have a personal phrase for that. "Tides and Eddies", whuch means if two people are destined to meet, the tides and eddies of life will bring them together, eventually. Fate.
I did notice that, but wasn't sure what it signified until now.
There's definitely something mystical going on. The similarities between the two judges is just too coincidental. Maybe the old judge is Auguste coming back to fix his life. I'm going to have to think on that one.
Okay, I could look up that last phrase in a translator, but I'm too lazy. What's it mean?
That is indeed strange, coming from you, but there are times when feeling is the more appropriate choice. The beauty of the connection the judge and Valentine are able to forge is something that I immediately related to my life. More on that...later.
Blindgroping
U mad 'bro?
Would it help the story if I watched them all?Number_6 said:
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Let's look briefly at the way Kieslowski composes a shot. This is called mise-en-scene, and essentially means all of the elements present in a frame of film.
This intersection should resonate for us, because it is the intersection where Auguste's law books fell to the ground, immediately after Valentine's car has crossed the crosswalk where he is crossing. The intersection is truly and intersection, because it's where lives intersect.
Here, after we've established the Judge sitting in his car at the stoplight, we see him look upward at the large poster of Valentine that earlier captured Auguste's attention. Like Auguste, he smiles.
Then we cut to this remarkable overhead shot of the Judge's car moving into the intersection, and we see the words on the poster: "En toute circonstance, fraichure de vivre." And that's precisely what Valentine has been, a fact driven home by the final shot of the Judge:
His broken window comes as the result of his confession to his neighbors, a confession he makes at Valentine's request. Quite literally, then, Valentine has brought fresh air into his life.
If no one minds, I'll post more images and make some remarks over the course of the next couple of days.
This intersection should resonate for us, because it is the intersection where Auguste's law books fell to the ground, immediately after Valentine's car has crossed the crosswalk where he is crossing. The intersection is truly and intersection, because it's where lives intersect.
Here, after we've established the Judge sitting in his car at the stoplight, we see him look upward at the large poster of Valentine that earlier captured Auguste's attention. Like Auguste, he smiles.
Then we cut to this remarkable overhead shot of the Judge's car moving into the intersection, and we see the words on the poster: "En toute circonstance, fraichure de vivre." And that's precisely what Valentine has been, a fact driven home by the final shot of the Judge:
His broken window comes as the result of his confession to his neighbors, a confession he makes at Valentine's request. Quite literally, then, Valentine has brought fresh air into his life.
If no one minds, I'll post more images and make some remarks over the course of the next couple of days.
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Blindgroping said:
Not really. They are a thematic trilogy, rather than a shared story. The characters' lives do intersect, but in very minor ways.
But, if you have time to watch three films, these come with my very highest recommendation, particularly Bleu and Rouge.
Blanc is a very different film--a black comedy. I love it, but it strikes many viewers of all three films as an odd choice to place between the other two.
Blindgroping
U mad 'bro?
Do you think BlockBuster will have them?
Peter Octavian
New member
Blindgroping said:
You're joking, right?
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Blindgroping said:
In Phoenix? I would hope so. DON'T get them on VHS. You need the widescreen edition to appreciate the way the shots are composed. The pan and scan really fucks it up.
I'd call around. How many Blockbusters are there near you?
And don't you have any indie rental stores?
Blindgroping
U mad 'bro?
Not locally.
There are 2 BBs on my way home.
There are 2 BBs on my way home.
Number_6
beer, I want beer
Peter Octavian said:
They did pick up a number of awards at Cannes, which seems to mean something to the people at my local Blockbuster.
They're also $9 at http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com. Since BB rentals are now $5, you'd might as well buy it.
Blindgroping
U mad 'bro?
What are the names to look up?
Friday
Bazinga!
The broken window.
I read that the windows in the old judge's life are meant to symbolize his cynicism and the shutting out of other people. The breaking of the windows near the end symbolize his own personal walls crumbling, and the fact that he actually peers out of a broken pane of glass at the end, and for the first time in a long time chooses to see life without a filter or barrier, symbolizing his redemption.
Yeah, I can see where that could be life affirming.
And I wouldn't mind at all if you posted about this over the next few days. I, at least, would LOVE it.
I read that the windows in the old judge's life are meant to symbolize his cynicism and the shutting out of other people. The breaking of the windows near the end symbolize his own personal walls crumbling, and the fact that he actually peers out of a broken pane of glass at the end, and for the first time in a long time chooses to see life without a filter or barrier, symbolizing his redemption.
Yeah, I can see where that could be life affirming.
And I wouldn't mind at all if you posted about this over the next few days. I, at least, would LOVE it.