South Dakota House Approves Abortion Ban

[Big Dick McGee]

He's not abusing his powers. Our country was founded upon States' rights being paramount, so long as those rights and laws don't contradict the Constitution.

I don't remember Abortion-on-demand being one of the enumerated rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

Women from SD are free to have abortions; they must simply travel out of State to do so. What's the big deal? The can still murder babies to thier heart's content!

 

[Sarek]

You'll never convince me that taking away the right of a woman to choose what to do or what's best for her own body should be decided by anyone other than herself.

And most certainly not by politicians, religious nut jobs or pro lifers.

 

[The Question]

I'm not sure I agree that a fetus is "her own body." She was living before it came along, and (barring medical mishap) survives just fine after it's out of her. It ain't a body part.

However.

On the notion that the fetus is a seperate (though dependent) individual, I wouldn't object to the woman charging her unborn rent at a premium for those nine months, billable to the father.

 

[Hambil]

Religious anti-abortion nut-jobs will never see reason. They are no better than the Taliban.

 

[Sarek]

While that fetus is still in the womb, the woman should have the right to make the decision as to whether or not to bring that child to term.

If it's morally wrong to abort that fetus, let her answer to god or whomever/whatever she believes in when the time comes. But for one human being to take away the right to decide from another because "It's against MY beliefs" is wrong.

 

[Sarek]

And before BDM comes running in here, no, I don't believe a fetus is a human being until it's no longer dependent on the womans body for life support.

 

[The Question]

While that fetus is still in the womb, the woman should have the right to make the decision as to whether or not to bring that child to term.

If it's morally wrong to abort that fetus, let her answer to god or whomever/whatever she believes in when the time comes. But for one human being to take away the right to decide from another because "It's against MY beliefs" is wrong.

Good point. Never have understood why people who believe the strongest in a god are the least willing to let their god tend to his own business.

 

[Caitriona]

Good point. Never have understood why people who believe the strongest in a god are the least willing to let their god tend to his own business.

Neither have I, and according to Christians.. "Judge not".. that's God's job. I say leave it to God.

 

[Big Dick McGee]

Religious anti-abortion nut-jobs will never see reason. They are no better than the Taliban.

You proove your utter foolishness with every post.

No wonder your party won't win agan until hell freezes over. :lol:

 

[Big Dick McGee]

Neither have I, and according to Christians.. "Judge not".. that's God's job. I say leave it to God.

Then, why have courts of law to deal with the murder of adults? "Let God judge 'em" right.

Pro-lifers aren't trying to judge these women, were merely trying to give a voice to the unborn. You'll never convince me that a child is better unborn than born.

And, Hambil & Sarek, I'll point out again that I am not a religious person, despite your efforts to label me a "religious nut-job". :roll:

 

[Sarek]

And, Hambil & Sarek, I'll point out again that I am not a religious person, despite your efforts to label me a "religious nut-job". :roll:

I was making a general statement. It's not up to me to decide how you choose to interpret it.

 

[Hambil]

You proove your utter foolishness with every post.

No wonder your party won't win agan until hell freezes over. :lol:

As usual, a wonderful fact filled rebuttal.

 

[Caitriona]

Then, why have courts of law to deal with the murder of adults? "Let God judge 'em" right.

Apples and oranges. Stopping the murder of walking talking humans is a public safety issue. The State has every right to govern that. That's what we pay them for, but abortion is not a public safety issue.

Pro-lifers aren't trying to judge these women, were merely trying to give a voice to the unborn. You'll never convince me that a child is better unborn than born.

And, Hambil & Sarek, I'll point out again that I am not a religious person, despite your efforts to label me a "religious nut-job". :roll:

An you'll never convince me that is is better to let the state dictate what a woman can do with her body.

This is why this is such a contentious issue. It's the Rights of the unborn against the rights of a woman and her life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

And it is precisely because it is so contentious that the state should stay out of it and leave it to the individual. No one answer is ever going to help govern the public on this issue effectively.

The state can't solve all our problems and this is one of them.

It's a privacy issue.

 

[Sarek]

No wonder your party won't win agan until hell freezes over. :lol:

Oh I don't know if I'd go that far. What with what may amount to illegal wire tapping, the governments attempt to interfere in the Terry Schivo case and now this, the American public just may have had it's fill with government interference in what should be private matters.

Not to mention, questionable Supreme Court nominees, out sourcing jobs to Arab interests, record-breaking deficits and war incurred dept, outrageous gas and oil prices, questionable awarding of government contracts, the whole hurricane Katrina response, the joke known as the Patriot act, false and or misleading intelligence on Iraq, abuse of the military (most especially Guard and Reserve forces), cutbacks in health care and social service programs, cuts in Veterans benefits (in wartime? Not a smart move), attempts to privatize social security, the fact that Osama is still playing video tag from somewhere in the mid-east with no real attempt by the Bush administration to find him, an ill conceived war in Iraq with no clear resolution in sight, and now a republican governor challenging Roe Vs Wade in a blatant attempt to try and force the issue before a Bush appointed Supreme Court, I don’t think a Republican candidate will stand a chance in hell of winning the next election.

I could be wrong, but the American publics faith in the Bush administration is at a record low and has been for a long time. If people remember this when they go to the polls in 08, it’s not the Bush administration that they’ll be voting for or against this time. It’ll be the Republican Party as a whole that’s going to take the hit because of the Bush administration and it’s actions.

And lets face it, that’s what put a Republican administration in place the last two elections. The mistakes and actions of the previous Democratic administration.

I didn’t much care for Clinton or the democrats when he was in office. But after what Bush has done to this country, to the military, to individual privacy and to the working class people, the democrats are looking pretty damn good about now.

 

[Big Dick McGee]

As usual, a wonderful fact filled rebuttal.

As opposed to your rebuttals, which consist of arrogant sniffing and name-calling!

 

[Big Dick McGee]

Oh I don't know if I'd go that far. What with what may amount to illegal wire tapping, the governments attempt to interfere in the Terry Schivo case and now this, the American public just may have had it's fill with government interference in what should be private matters.

Not to mention, questionable Supreme Court nominees, out sourcing jobs to Arab interests, record-breaking deficits and war incurred dept, outrageous gas and oil prices, questionable awarding of government contracts, the whole hurricane Katrina response, the joke known as the Patriot act, false and or misleading intelligence on Iraq, abuse of the military (most especially Guard and Reserve forces), cutbacks in health care and social service programs, cuts in Veterans benefits (in wartime? Not a smart move), attempts to privatize social security, the fact that Osama is still playing video tag from somewhere in the mid-east with no real attempt by the Bush administration to find him, an ill conceived war in Iraq with no clear resolution in sight, and now a republican governor challenging Roe Vs Wade in a blatant attempt to try and force the issue before a Bush appointed Supreme Court, I don’t think a Republican candidate will stand a chance in hell of winning the next election.

I could be wrong, but the American publics faith in the Bush administration is at a record low and has been for a long time. If people remember this when they go to the polls in 08, it’s not the Bush administration that they’ll be voting for or against this time. It’ll be the Republican Party as a whole that’s going to take the hit because of the Bush administration and it’s actions.

And lets face it, that’s what put a Republican administration in place the last two elections. The mistakes and actions of the previous Democratic administration.

I didn’t much care for Clinton or the democrats when he was in office. But after what Bush has done to this country, to the military, to individual privacy and to the working class people, the democrats are looking pretty damn good about now.

Doesn't matter, you'll run Hillary or Kerry again and McCain or a Republican Governor will beat the stuffing out of 'em.

For God's sake, there's actually talk within the party of running a Clinton/Rice ticket! You people must be smoking what Dean is smoking!

 

[Caitriona]

Doesn't matter, you'll run Hillary or Kerry again and McCain or a Republican Governor will beat the stuffing out of 'em.

For God's sake, there's actually talk within the party of running a Clinton/Rice ticket! You people must be smoking what Dean is smoking!

You fool! You utter fool. You think it's just about who runs for President? It's also about Congress. That's what it is about. You can posture all you want to, but let's talk about it once the mid-term elections are over with. Then let's talk about it after another 3 years of Bush and his cronies.

You act as if time were static and power as if it were an absolute. That Bush is going to be able to undo his record somehow. Even if he gives the people a lollipop in the form of some meager tax cut he can't save his party's butt come election day in 2008. We have 3 more years of this crap and by the time it is over, the GOP is not going to be in the same powerful shape it has been. Your precious party is going to take a hit, somehow, some place. They're going to take a hit because THEY ARE FUCKING UP IN A MAJOR WAY. It's the nature of politics. Truth is, 2008 is probably going to be a free for all and not one I'm looking forward to at all.

You act as if you are really part of the power the GOP has, when the truth is you are just a pawn whose vote is courted and counted upon and whose voice echoes at the local pub when the news comes on. You're nothing to the GOP, and if you woke up you'd see that.

The Republican Party needs to wake up and smell the coffee, because they hitched their wagon to the wrong guy. Only none of you can admit it. We'll talk in 3 years and see how you feel about life and living and politics.

I remember talking about it with you last year during the campaign and look where we are now. You actually believe this country has had real leadership over the past year? Or two years, or 5 years? You think things are GOOD now? You think this is all the way a country is supposed to be run?

Wake up? The Democrats will either come up with someone viable or not. But the Republicans will find themselves in a very similar place--with the American public not trusting them either. That's what you need to face BDM, the fact that it isn't about Reps vs. Dems it's about politicians and the voters.

See this is why I don't bother to talk with hard core party line types, all they can ever do is point a finger to the other guy and boast about winning against the opposition, never thinking about the actual damage their party is doing in real time to real people. It's time to admit the Bush Administration's failure and until you do that you're always gonna be a fool in my eyes.

Just like my mother was when she couldn't admit Nixon had committed a crime, and my brother was when he couldn't admit Clinton was lying. You people need to come out from behind the party line rhetoric and face the truth when a public servant fails the people he/she serves.

So, we'll talk about politics after the mid-terms and after the 2008 election and see what the political climate is by them. Time marches on BDM, and the way time is marching these days I'd suggest you "buckle your seatbelt, because it's going to be a bumpy ride".

 

[Big Dick McGee]

Remember, you guys were all supposed to be "galvanized" after President Bush's first term. That didn't seem to work out.

The fact is, there are more conservative voters than there are liberal Democrat voters in the states that matter. Unless you revamp the Electoral College, you won't win the Presidency.

As far as mid-term elections, well there's always a bit of turnover. People get tired if the same party is in power for too many years, and they often make a change for change's sake.

I still don't think there will be a wholesale shift in power, like you do. The Democratic Party is so rudderless, they be fighting themselves as much as they will the Republican Party.

You remind me of Hambil. So cocksure, full of "you're a fool predictions", etc. I love looking at his old threads, where he was "certain" that Kerry would win. :lol:

 

[Caitriona]

Remember, you guys were all supposed to be "galvanized" after President Bush's first term. That didn't seem to work out.

The fact is, there are more conservative voters than there are liberal Democrat voters in the states that matter. Unless you revamp the Electoral College, you won't win the Presidency.

As far as mid-term elections, well there's always a bit of turnover. People get tired if the same party is in power for too many years, and they often make a change for change's sake.

I still don't think there will be a wholesale shift in power, like you do. The Democratic Party is so rudderless, they be fighting themselves as much as they will the Republican Party.

You remind me of Hambil. So cocksure, full of "you're a fool predictions", etc. I love looking at his old threads, where he was "certain" that Kerry would win. :lol:

And you are a mirror image of the same cockiness-- only for the other party.

And you need to read my post again, I never claimed Democratic victory, I claimed that the Republican Party would be in the same disarray as the Democrats and that it would be a free for all. READ, don't assume sweetie. This is why I don't get into it with you in particular, because you fall into this kind of assumption easily and don't really read my words. I'm not a Democrat, I'm a moderate Independent. I'm an equal opportunity employer when it comes to looking at the failures of both of the major party's

I agree there a lots of conservatives out there in America, and if the GOP or this administration were indeed conservative, I wouldn't be as critical. They aren't conservative. This boggles my mind each and every time someone like you throws out that statement.

BUSH is not conservative. He's a religious zealot who made the government even bigger, spent more money than we had, and got us into a war. He has claimed more power for the executive Branch and intruded into our privacy more than at any other time in history. He's NOT conservative and in fact by his actions he looks LIBERAL. He got elected by conservatives, but he hasn't served a conservative philosophy. He's served the Christian Right, but then that is only one portion of the GOP.

For crying out loud man WAKE UP!!!

 

[Tyrant]

BUSH is not conservative.

Maybe when people like Laura and Big Dick stop misrepresenting conservatives by hailing Bush as one of them and citing his 'victories' (LOL) we'll all get along better.