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Thought of the evening: Women in the workplace
- Thread starter Kefka
- Start date
The Question
Eternal
missmanners said:And what about these unequal social obligations? I'm calling you guys on this one, I swear....
mm
Well, what about the old-fashioned notion that on a date, the guy pays? Or that it's the guy who should be the breadwinner? Now we may hear claims that that isn't the way it is anymore, but what do women still look for in a guy?
They SAY personality is the number one thing.
Trail a pair of young women through a downtown scene on a Saturday night, listen to what they're saying about the guys they pass or that pass them. All that pretty, idealistic, "evolved" talk goes right out the window.
Not to mention that it remains the case, 95% of the time, that the man is still expected to be one who has to sell himself to a woman he's interested in.
The day a woman gets me drunk at a bar so she can take me home and "get lucky" is the day I'll believe that equality is what women are really after, instead of just an "all the benefits and none of the obligations" arrangement.
missmanners
grrrrrrrr...
For what reason?Kefka said:
mm
Gonad
DON'T FUCK WITH MY TITLE BITCH
The Question said:
Maybe you should look at all these women who do and believe in these notions as PEOPLE YOU WOULD NOT LIKE TO SPEND TIME WITH. Don't want to propogate these notions? Don't encourage them by dating them. The reason so many women have a ridiculous (and hypocritical) sense of entitlement is because because they believe (correctly) that they can get away with it.
I think a lot of this gender-role stuff is a problem for BOTH sides.
missmanners
grrrrrrrr...
The Question said:
So, you are going to take me out dining and dancing or whatever. You will spend... in the neighborhood of $100 for dinner, drinks, tip. Now, you invited me to be your guest, so it's probably expected that you will pay. You want to impress me. Knowing you are taking me to someplace besides Burger King means I need to look nice because YOU expect me to look nice. So I'll have my hair done... know how much it cost me last time I had my hair done 3 weeks ago? $100... how about that. And thats not unusual for cut, style, highlights, etc.... then there are the nails, make up, lotion, perfume, jewelry, new shoes, stylish dress... and if I think you might want to "get lucky" then I need some little lacy things from Victorias Secret. I might have $300-$400 invested in looking, smelling and feeling like a woman because it's expected of me. And even if you decide on Burger King, it's still gonna cost a lot more for me to clean up than it is you.
mm
Gonad
DON'T FUCK WITH MY TITLE BITCH
missmanners said:
And why is it expected of you? Are YOU expecting it of you? If you think these expectations are at all unreasonable, why do you strive so hard to acheive them? If you think it is at all unreasonable for a guy to expect these things of you, why don't you encourage a different sort of attitude by ONLY DATING PEOPLE WITH REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS?!?!
Just for fun, I will describe my preparations for dating:
I try to take a 20 minute shower about two hours before the date. If I'm lucky I remember to brush my hair and teeth shortly before I leave. No makeup, no jewelry, I always have lotion around because that's what people give girls for presents when they don't know them well, so I'll use that on my legs and elbows. I went on a two-year clothes shopping spree about six or seven years ago, and I get some stuff free as hand-me-downs from friends, I dress from these options, suitably for whatever I'm aware of the date entailing. While I own little lacy things, I don't generally wear them for dates since if I think I'm going to fuck the clothes will all be coming off too fast to enjoy them anyways. If I'm spending the day lounging around watching tv with my boyfriend, I save the little lacy things for that, where they can be seen and enjoyed for more extended periods of time. Oh, and I have a pair of brown booties and black booties and I wear whichever matches the outfit better. I only buy new shoes every year or so. My black booties are from 2004 and my brown booties are from 2002. I feel every centimeter a bitch in heat. Okay, so I shave. But that's a part of my showering ritual. And I try to remember to use deodorant too. Cost: $20 max for emergency supplies. And if I pick what we're doing/where we're going I always offer to pay.
missmanners
grrrrrrrr...
Gonad said:
Dear, I never SAID they were unreasonable..... but if I were to date (which I don't) and my date was mentally fussing that he was expected to pay for the dinner and that was somehow unfair, I sure wouldn't want to go out smelling like Salvation Army mothballs and B.O. and not being able to remember if I brushed my teeth or hair.
I'm sure you look just fine and your little boyfriend must find you acceptable or he wouldnt still be your boyfriend. I just prefer better grooming and hygene.
mm
missmanners
grrrrrrrr...
er.... meow... hisshisssss
mm
mm
missmanners
grrrrrrrr...
Kefka said:
No... unless she can put you, herself or someone else in physical danger, it is not acceptable to hit a woman.
mm
Gonad
DON'T FUCK WITH MY TITLE BITCH
That's okay, but I'm sure you don't need to spend all that money on grooming and hygene. Can't your hair look nice on its own? After all those (hypothetical now that I am aware you don't date currently) dates where you bought nice dresses, can't you just wear them again? Presumably the guy you are going out on a date with hasn't seen it, or hasn't seen YOU in it yet. Same goes for jewelry, shoes, and perfume.
Maybe the guys in this thread can answer: do you notice nails? How nice do nails need to be?
And makeup, if you really feel it is necessary, isn't that a more long-term investment? I'm certain you don't use the whole amount of your purchase on a single date; how many nice dates can you get out of each different makeup item? (mascara, eyeshadow, lipstick, whateverelse I'm forgetting), oh, and include the perfume in with this too.
And I was going to pos you for your brutal post but I know you prefer the red and then it would look like I was negging you so I'll go give you red for some random post elsewhere, unless you really want the green instead. Do you?
Maybe the guys in this thread can answer: do you notice nails? How nice do nails need to be?
And makeup, if you really feel it is necessary, isn't that a more long-term investment? I'm certain you don't use the whole amount of your purchase on a single date; how many nice dates can you get out of each different makeup item? (mascara, eyeshadow, lipstick, whateverelse I'm forgetting), oh, and include the perfume in with this too.
And I was going to pos you for your brutal post
but I know you prefer the red and then it would look like I was negging you so I'll go give you red for some random post elsewhere, unless you really want the green instead. Do you?
missmanners
grrrrrrrr...
^ lol, I was just practicing a little claw sharpening..
I doubt I'd fuss that much for a date, but a job interview is a different story.
mm
I doubt I'd fuss that much for a date, but a job interview is a different story.
mm
Love Child
One Love
I offer to pay especially if I don't want him to have any preconcieved notions that I will sleep with him just because he took me out to dinner. I think going dutch is a well accepted practice. However some men are still insulted if you even offer.
But Gonad is right, its all in choices, and who you choose to spend your time and money on.
But Gonad is right, its all in choices, and who you choose to spend your time and money on.
Love Child
One Love
Is it socially acceptable to hit anyone?Kefka said:
Why do you need to?
I don't agree with violence in any form. But I do agree to self defense. I don't think it is socially acceptable for a woman to unleash abuse on a man, and not expect to get hit in return. And if this is the case anyway, then that is a highly disfunctional situation anyway.
The Question
Eternal
missmanners said:
But again we have the inherent assumption that I should be the one to invite you, rather than the other way 'round. That you're the treasure I'm hunting, not the other way 'round.
The Question
Eternal
Love Child said:
And the most attractive of them, IMO. I don't understand why a guy would be offended if his date offers to pay her own way on the date -- I would think a guy would be more offended by the feeling that he had to bribe a woman to spend some time with him.
The Question
Eternal
Kefka said:
That really depends on the situation. She gets mouthy? No. She tries her hand at physical intimidation? You'd be doing her a favor, but probably still no. She actually and genuinely threatens you while possessed of the ability to back that threat up? Don't hesitate, put her on the floor any way you have to.