Walmart Under Fire...

[Number_6]

You wouldn't have been dirt poor had you attended college. Financial aid provides more than enough to live on. I did it for the last three years of my Ph.D. Yes, I owe it all back now, but I also gained an education that allowed me to get a job that paid well enough to pay it back.

And had I just been an undergraduate, and gone to college in my home state, I wouldn't have had to borrow nearly as much.

So your situation doesn't really ring true to me. Any high school guidance counselor would have been able to answer financial aid questions for you, and were you as poor as you claim, you would have qualified for a Pell Grant and possibly other grants as well. And definitely Stafford Loans. I'm not sure how you could have attended high school without ever even having heard of these things.

And I'm not sure why your nephew was your responsibility. Should the WIC checks have gone to your sister?

I'm glad you climbed out of the hole. But you are being racist and classist by insisting that others are incapable of doing the same.

 

[Friday]

You wouldn't have been dirt poor had you attended college. Financial aid provides more than enough to live on. I did it for the last three years of my Ph.D. Yes, I owe it all back now, but I also gained an education that allowed me to get a job that paid well enough to pay it back.

And had I just been an undergraduate, and gone to college in my home state, I wouldn't have had to borrow nearly as much.

So your situation doesn't really ring true to me. Any high school guidance counselor would have been able to answer financial aid questions for you, and were you as poor as you claim, you would have qualified for a Pell Grant and possibly other grants as well. And definitely Stafford Loans. I'm not sure how you could have attended high school without ever even having heard of these things.

I did receive the Pell grant, and a Stafford loan, and all of those things. But it just wasn't college expenses I had, Number_6. It was rent, food, clothing, not just for me, but for my nephew. I was stretching a college budget to run a household.

And I'm not sure why your nephew was your responsibility. Should the WIC checks have gone to your sister?

My sister was in Massuchesetts at the time with her boyfriend. I was granted temporary custody, thus the checks went to me. My nephew was my responsibility because I loved him. Too emotional for you?

I'm glad you climbed out of the hole. But you are being racist and classist by insisting that others are incapable of doing the same.

No. Some can. Some can't. I've spent years teaching my sister about her resources, and how to use them. Others don't have the luxury of such a mentor.

For some, the life on the dole is normal. Thus they will be the ones to perpetuate the generational cycle.

 

[Number_6]

So you made the decision to take responsibility for the actions of others.

That's fine.

But don't expect society as a whole to want to take responsibility for the actions of others. I have no interest in throwing money at people who make mistake after mistake. I have no interest in throwing money at people who are unwilling to take responsibility for themselves.

As for not knowing that there are opportunities out there and other ways of life--bullshit. Your sister didn't need to be taught about her resources--she needed to be taught to be responsible, or she needed to grow up to the point where she was willing to be responsible.

People who live on welfare don't live in some sort of welfare bubble. They live alongside the rest of society, in apartment complexes where people do make the decisions necessary to better their conditions. They have television sets, and they can get library cards.

You're just turning people into complete victims, unable to lift a finger to help themselves. And I call bullshit.

 

[Friday]

So you made the decision to take responsibility for the actions of others.

That's fine.

No, I made a decision to care for an infant that meant the world to me. I took responsibility for his life. A responsibility that I take seriously to this day. At that point, quite frankly, my sister could have rotted in hell for all I cared.

But don't expect society as a whole to want to take responsibility for the actions of others. I have no interest in throwing money at people who make mistake after mistake. I have no interest in throwing money at people who are unwilling to take responsibility for themselves.

I agree with this, to a point. Introduce people to choices. If they take advantage of them, they will lead a good life. If not, the responsibility for their well being reverts back to them.

As for not knowing that there are opportunities out there and other ways of life--bullshit. Your sister didn't need to be taught about her resources--she needed to be taught to be responsible, or she needed to grow up to the point where she was willing to be responsible.

My sister was dealing with a limited education, and limited experiences. Once shown that there is another way to live, she embraced it. Sort of. Well, not really. But she is better than she was.

You're just turning people into complete victims, unable to lift a finger to help themselves. And I call bullshit.

No, I'm dealing with the reality of the situation as I've experienced it.

 

[gprime]

With respect to the original post, I say bullshit. Walmart doesn't have a monopoly on anything, most especially the pharmaceutical industry. They are a powerful industrial force, but its their right to choose what they stock. If they're missing out on the opportunity to increase their profit by not selling a given item, then go to the competitor. Its that damn simple. Because their only responsibility is to maximize shareholder profits.

 

[Friday]

Hmm...

Number_6, our friendship is based on no holds barred, gloves off, honesty. So here goes...

You want the world to revolve around your values and standards. You insist that society claims those ideals that you hold dear, and will fight tooth and nail to achieve this goal. At times, you shove your righteous indignation down people's throats.

You need to give credence to the reality of a situation, as opposed to reading it through an idealized version of how things should be.

The reality of the situation we've been discussing is this: there are some who need to be introduced to the resources available to pull them up from poverty. True, there will always be those deadbeats who sell their foodstamps for booze money (I've seen this, also). But there are also those who, if they knew the possibilities out there, would take advantage of them.

Not everything is black and white, my dear, dear, friend. You often fail to recognize those shades of grey.

 

[Friday]

With respect to the original post, I say bullshit. Walmart doesn't have a monopoly on anything, most especially the pharmaceutical industry. They are a powerful industrial force, but its their right to choose what they stock. If they're missing out on the opportunity to increase their profit by not selling a given item, then go to the competitor. Its that damn simple. Because their only responsibility is to maximize shareholder profits.

The point is, however, there are some geographic locations where Walmart is the only game in town. Refusing women who live in these areas the morning after pill speaks of moral and ethical manipulation.

 

[Peter Octavian]

Walmart being the conservative organization that it is

Bzzzzt, wrong!

Sorry.

Walmart isn't a conservative organization.

They are, however, the premiere example of what's become of the American Service Industry: They're marketing pussies.

Forget politics.

They're so scared shitless of pissing anyone off that they won't dare rock the boat with something a little controversial. They are kings of marginalized merchandising, and because they set the lower benchmark for what are acceptable practices for store stocking, the American consumer gets shit for selection, not only from Walmart, but from any and every other retail establishment attempting to be price competitive.

While they're free market whores, and titans of volume and profit, when it comes to lining their shelves with anything which might garner the sustained attention of some squeaky wheel organization with an agenda and a bullhorn, Walmart is the wimpy kid who stays after to clean the chalkboard erasers so he can get a ride home from the teacher.

 

[gprime]

The point is, however, there are some geographic locations where Walmart is the only game in town. Refusing women who live in these areas the morning after pill speaks of moral and ethical manipulation.

There is no moral issue. Its their choice. There is no place where they are the only business in operation and in driving distance, as there would be too little cash for said locations to stay open. So, either the women can find another source or order online. If neither can be done, its their problem.

Does Wal-Mart have to sell guns because some areas don't have gun shops?

 

[WordInterrupted]

There is no moral issue. Its their choice.

As a matter of law, it isn't their choice:

The lawsuit charges that Wal-Mart is violating a Massachusetts policy requiring pharmacies in the state to dispense all "commonly prescribed medicines."

 

[Peter Octavian]

As a matter of law, it isn't their choice:

Choice, perhaps not, however:

commonly prescribed medicines

...in regard to the 'morning after' pill is an arguable point.

I'm sure, as commonly prescribed 'birth control' methods go, the 'morning after' pill is a last resort, and not a first choice as prescribed by most physicians.

 

[Number_6]

Hmm...

Number_6, our friendship is based on no holds barred, gloves off, honesty. So here goes...

You want the world to revolve around your values and standards. You insist that society claims those ideals that you hold dear, and will fight tooth and nail to achieve this goal. At times, you shove your righteous indignation down people's throats.

You need to give credence to the reality of a situation, as opposed to reading it through an idealized version of how things should be.

The reality of the situation we've been discussing is this: there are some who need to be introduced to the resources available to pull them up from poverty. True, there will always be those deadbeats who sell their foodstamps for booze money (I've seen this, also). But there are also those who, if they knew the possibilities out there, would take advantage of them.

Not everything is black and white, my dear, dear, friend. You often fail to recognize those shades of grey.

No, what I'm asking is that society not expect me to foot the bill for people who are too fucking stupid to figure out what their options are.

You are the one with the idealized version of how things should be. I'm telling you like it is. You are the one who wants to change the rules of the game and force those who are successful to help those who refuse to lift a finger to help themselves. Those who wallow in their victimhood.

It's not that fucking hard to find out what the possibilities are, particularly when you have 24/7 free because you don't have to go to work.

 

[Friday]

No, what I'm asking is that society not expect me to foot the bill for people who are too fucking stupid to figure out what their options are.

Not stupid. Perhaps not educated, definitely socially unexposed. But not stupid.

You are the one with the idealized version of how things should be. I'm telling you like it is. You are the one who wants to change the rules of the game and force those who are successful to help those who refuse to lift a finger to help themselves. Those who wallow in their victimhood.

It's not that fucking hard to find out what the possibilities are, particularly when you have 24/7 free because you don't have to go to work.

Not everyone on welfare is home 24/7. Some do have jobs, yet still need to be on welfare to make ends meet.

Number_6, what if I zigged, instead of zagged? What if I chose to work, instead of going to school? Today I'd be one of those people we're arguing about. I'd be one of the working poor, with no secondary education to help support myself.

And as far as forcing successful people to help those less fortunate, yes, I believe it is our responsibility, as a society, to help those that don't have.

If they are willing to help themselves. If, when given the options to improve one's lot, they are rejected in favor of laziness and apathy, then I say screw them. They're on their own.

But they need to be given that option in the first place. One of the things I admire about Lt. Mewa at Wordforge is that he does do this. He helps those in his neighborhood fill out resumes, find jobs, etc. He knows that those down on their luck just need a helping hand. I don't think he continues to help those that blow off his assistance, and he shouldn't. But he gives them a chance.

That's all some of these people need is a chance.

 

[Starship Coyote]

I think that when women apply for welfare, one of the stipulations attached is that they must breed as many children as possible to be trained for the armed forces.

 

[Friday]

One more thing about college and financial aid. I was out of high school a few years before I attended college, so I had to gather the information, apply, and follow up all on my own. I didn't have a guidance counselor, or even a parent to help.

The only real sacrifice I made during all this was not attending Princeton when invited to do so.

Commuting to New Jersey everyday didn't fit in with the raising a baby thing.

It was a wise choice in the long run.

 

[Number_6]

If you had chosen not to go to school, and you were one of the working poor, you could still enroll yourself into a community college and get financial aid and educate yourself out of the hole.

As far as finding out about the opportunities, any admissions officer at your local community college would have been happy to explain to you how to apply and how to get financial aid. You seem to forget that the colleges and universities are filled with bleeding hearts ready to help the "poor and downtrodden."

You want to save everybody. And you want to save people from themselves. Fine. But please don't ask me to foot the bill. I'll be paying for saving myself for the next thirty years.

 

[Starship Coyote]

In a similar vein, those with aptitude...and not physically or philosophically challenged... can enter the military and receive sizable signup bonuses, financial aid (student loan repayment, for example), and the GI Bill. The GI Bill is an especially sweet deal: when I was in, you paid in $1200 over the first year of enlistment, and when you got out and went to college, you received $12,000 back in installments of over $800 a month for every school month.

Simply put, the Army paid for my graduate school.

 

[Friday]

If you had chosen not to go to school, and you were one of the working poor, you could still enroll yourself into a community college and get financial aid and educate yourself out of the hole.

Conceded.

As far as finding out about the opportunities, any admissions officer at your local community college would have been happy to explain to you how to apply and how to get financial aid. You seem to forget that the colleges and universities are filled with bleeding hearts ready to help the "poor and downtrodden."

True, but I did it on my own, anyway. Who knows why...

You want to save everybody. And you want to save people from themselves.

This is true, and always has been. Again, who knows why...

But please don't ask me to foot the bill. I'll be paying for saving myself for the next thirty years.

That's where your tax dollars go, whether you like it or not.

 

[Friday]

In a similar vein, those with aptitude...and not physically or philosophically challenged... can enter the military and receive sizable signup bonuses, financial aid (student loan repayment, for example), and the GI Bill. The GI Bill is an especially sweet deal: when I was in, you paid in $1200 over the first year of enlistment, and when you got out and went to college, you received $12,000 back in installments of over $800 a month for every school month.

Simply put, the Army paid for my graduate school.

CU, that opens up a whole new can of worms. Specifically, targeting the poor to populate our Armed Forces. This I also find abhorrent.

 

[Starship Coyote]

CU, that opens up a whole new can of worms. Specifically, targeting the poor to populate our Armed Forces. This I also find abhorrent.

Oh, ok...so the Armed Forces gives poor kids the out they need to go to college, and you find it abhorrent. Uh-huh. Ok. It's fine to line up like cattle in order to fill out the paperwork for the monthly dole and lose your dignity, but taking an oppotunity that might somehow require or instill some self-respect is abhorrent. Gotcha.