ethnic integration in US cities.

[aeommai]

Hm. Juarez no doubt. I knew it. Ask me how I just knew it.

because you're a self loathing immigrant who came down the same path???

 

[The Call Of Nature]

On the contrary, aeommai. Being part Native, Day is far more American than most of us (to my knowledge there is only one other member here part Native).
Technically, English, too, is a language superimposed on almost the whole continent. However, considering the many different Native American languages and regional dialects it was propably a good idea to use English as a lingua franca (pun not intended) as it has an extremely simple grammar and can be learned rather quickly.

@Eloisel: we have a similar problem with the Russian and Turkish citizens here. They, too, tend to stick together and avoid contact with the rest of the country. I must admit that even I find it a bit irritating if in the bus I hear only foreign conversations.
Also, by isolating themselves, these groups deprive their children from contact with German children which leads to them being almost unable to speak German when they begin to attend school. These children can almost never catch up with their class mates, often leave school prematurely and have almost no chances in the job market.
"When in Rome, do as the Romans" is a healthy principle. Integration is especially important when a lack of it will lead to material and consequently to social decline. As much as I can understand these peoples' desire to stay together and speak their mothertongue, they should nevertheless not underrate the risks of such a behaviour.

As I see it, in this conflict both parties have valid points. Could we perhaps all agree that isolation should neither happen voluntarily nor be enforced and that a common language is an important basis for social contacts within groups but also between groups?

 

[Daystrom]

This is a ridiculous concern, and the same one advanced by american nativist movements with every wave of immigration that's happened in your country. People were saying the very same things about the germans (they have their own schools! they don't learn english!), the irish (they're tools of the pope!), the italians (both on catholicism and language), jews, the chinese, the japanese, and so on. Every single time, the people advancing those arguments have been wrong and the groups have been fully assimilated into american society.

To believe that hispanics coming to the US don't want to assimilate is to somehow believe that they came to the US with nefarious purposes, and that they want to work against their own self interest. It shouldn't really be forgotten that immigrants uprooted their entire lives and left their friends and family behind because they wanted to be American, and the American Dream says that, no matter who you are and where you come from, you can get there and make it if you work hard.

(And, hey, if you're not fluent in spanish, agitating a strawman about "La Raza" is kinda silly. Words that sound similar in two languages actually carry a slew of differing connotations and subtleties, and "raza" can not be directly translated to "race", especially not in this case. "Raza" can also mean "people", a nuance it shares, incidentally, with the french word "race".)

Sausageman, I am a middleaged black man (sic) of born and raised in Los Angeles California. If you honestly don't know what that means get back to me. If you do know what that means, get back to me.

Everyone knows what "La Raza" means Sausageman. The Latino community here has been quite vocal about it for quite a while now.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4213725AAJp5Ji

 

[SAUSAGEMAN]

Sausageman, I am a middleaged black man (sic) of born and raised in Los Angeles California. If you honestly don't know what that means get back to me. If you do know what that means, get back to me.

I'm actually baffled as to what that means and why it's relevant in this context, actually.

 

['Gear]

Daystrom sed -Not you 'Gear/Skin/MM/whoeverthehellyouare

Say what?!?

 

[Daystrom]

I'm actually baffled as to what that means and why it's relevant in this context, actually.

Ignorant Mexican.

 

[bad dog]

I think we should deport beaners to Canada.

 

[Donovan]

no, I think she's just frustrated because she knows she'll be attacked whatever she says (which is exactly what happened, btw)

I did not attack Eloisel. Her discussion with me dates back several threads over a period of months, during which time I have attempted on a number of occasions to make her see her fears are mostly unfounded. Although we have occasionally become edgy and heated I have tried to avoid simply insulting her for insults' sake. The comment in question was snarky and struck me as petulant whining, so I ignored it. I did however answer the salient points of her thread without trying to flame her.

To answer your other post: I have been exposed to a number of cultures over the years as I have lived in and around various cities in this country. My race is unimportant to this discussion. For the sake of argument, call me that nigger-kike-spic-beaner-caveboy-hippie-fag-lesbian who always has a fucking opinion and never shuts up. Labels are cheap, and plentiful. Apply them at will.

 

[Daystrom]

Donovan you are so new.

 

[Donovan]

Sausageman, I am a middleaged black man (sic) of born and raised in Los Angeles California. If you honestly don't know what that means get back to me. If you do know what that means, get back to me.

Everyone knows what "La Raza" means Sausageman. The Latino community here has been quite vocal about it for quite a while now.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4213725AAJp5Ji

It actually is kind of relevant, in that in my experience Los Angeles has the largest number of hateful assholes per capita on the entire North American continent. Whites hate blacks, blacks hate latinos and Mexicans, Mexicans hate the Koreans, Koreans hate the whites, and so on. Personally I think it's the pervasive toxins in the smog layer that make people there so damn nutty. But of course that's just anecdotal evidence with absolutely no data to back it up.

Daystrom, I spent a great portion of my life living in various cities up and down the california metro belt, including but not limited to: Lynwood, Southgate, Downey, Compton, Redondo, LB, as well as points north in Oakland Redwood City, Frisco, Vallejo, and a few others I can't remember now. While I don't necessarily condone the level of bile Angelinos have built up against one another, I at least understand your position may have some basis in actual experience. That's a fucked up town with fucked up people in it, and if you wanted my advice you'd get out as soon as humanly possible.

 

[eloisel]

I did not attack Eloisel. Her discussion with me dates back several threads over a period of months, during which time I have attempted on a number of occasions to make her see her fears are mostly unfounded. Although we have occasionally become edgy and heated I have tried to avoid simply insulting her for insults' sake. The comment in question was snarky and struck me as petulant whining, so I ignored it. I did however answer the salient points of her thread without trying to flame her.

To answer your other post: I have been exposed to a number of cultures over the years as I have lived in and around various cities in this country. My race is unimportant to this discussion. For the sake of argument, call me that nigger-kike-spic-beaner-caveboy-hippie-fag-lesbian who always has a fucking opinion and never shuts up. Labels are cheap, and plentiful. Apply them at will.

I was thinking late Neanderthal mixed with early Cro-Magnon (or Early Modern Human) and a dash of bonobo.

By the way, I wrote a story with a bonobo as a main character. Although the standard wisdom for the conference I took it to was that animals and small children don't play well, I still took third place out of a little more than 1400 entries. So, don't be miffed that I lumped you in with one as I actually did like that character and he was quite the character.

 

[eloisel]

This is the precise moment I stopped reading what you post.

It isn't like you know what you are talking about and you don't have a dog in this hunt anyway.

 

[eloisel]

The point Eloisel is not trying to make is that latinos tend to be rather ethnocentric, it's not so much that latinos refuse to learn english but it "might" be so much that latinos, whether or not they speak english expect everyone else to speak spanish because "they" are latino. They wish to not..assimilate into american culture, but to superimpose upon it. They would probably call it a biproduct of "La Raza". We would call it biproduct of "birthright".

Superimposing is a good term. That is exactly what is happening in my community. There has been a shift. I agree that the model used to be by second or third generation the immigrant family was more than likely assimilated into the American culture. However, I don't believe that is the case anymore and that it is changing very rapidly right now because the population of Mexicans who do not speak English and are living in the US has grown rapidly and is continuing to grow rapidly.

It is my understanding that a generation is 25 years. Where will you be in 25 years? I will more than likely either be dead or living in an assisted living facility or nursing home reliant on other people to help me live. Maybe you can go your entire life without speaking to anyone and living a life where no one speaks to you - or at least not in a language you speak - but I don't look forward to it.

 

[Daystrom]

It actually is kind of relevant, in that in my experience Los Angeles has the largest number of hateful assholes per capita on the entire North American continent. Whites hate blacks, blacks hate latinos and Mexicans, Mexicans hate the Koreans, Koreans hate the whites, and so on. Personally I think it's the pervasive toxins in the smog layer that make people there so damn nutty. But of course that's just anecdotal evidence with absolutely no data to back it up

Daystrom, I spent a great portion of my life living in various cities up and down the california metro belt, including but not limited to: Lynwood, Southgate, Downey, Compton, Redondo, LB, as well as points north in Oakland Redwood City, Frisco, Vallejo, and a few others I can't remember now. While I don't necessarily condone the level of bile Angelinos have built up against one another, I at least understand your position may have some basis in actual experience. That's a fucked up town with fucked up people in it, and if you wanted my advice you'd get out as soon as humanly possible.

.


You're talking out of your ass whetto, get on the stick.

 

[eloisel]

Daystrom - I did not mean you precisely - but "you" as in people other than me.

 

['Gear]

I did not attack Eloisel. Her discussion with me dates back several threads over a period of months, during which time I have attempted on a number of occasions to make her see her fears are mostly unfounded. Although we have occasionally become edgy and heated I have tried to avoid simply insulting her for insults' sake. The comment in question was snarky and struck me as petulant whining, so I ignored it. I did however answer the salient points of her thread without trying to flame her.

To answer your other post: I have been exposed to a number of cultures over the years as I have lived in and around various cities in this country. My race is unimportant to this discussion. For the sake of argument, call me that nigger-kike-spic-beaner-caveboy-hippie-fag-lesbian who always has a fucking opinion and never shuts up. Labels are cheap, and plentiful. Apply them at will.

Anchor baby.

 

[Donovan]

Say what?!?

He sed "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!"

Think we should tell him you're really me, and this whole OOtikof thing was a complex troll on the trolls?

 

[Donovan]

Anchor baby.

methmonster.

 

['Gear]

methmonster.

Bastard!

 

[eloisel]

Spreader of unsubstantiated rumors about about Randy Quaid. Where's your chart?