The Cost of Illegal Immigrants

[Mandi]

I look at it this way; I would rather have my tax dollars spent keeping them out of the country, rather than pay them to sit on their asses because they are on welfare and don't want to get a job. But that's my personal opinion. I'm an isolationist.

 

[The Question]

There already are fines for knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant--they were part of the 1985 immigration act. They obviously haven't been very effective.

They haven't been very enforced -- I wonder if that might have something to do with it.

I don't understand what you want to acheive. First you say that you want to save tax dollars, but then you say you want to seal off the boarder--which would cost more tax dollars than it would save. What good do we serve by throwing tons of money at boarder security?

We save even more tons of money that stays here instead of leaving the country. But here's an idea -- pull American troops, American money and American military hardware out of the Middle East and redeploy it along our border, where it will actually serve American interests.

 

[Mentalist]

I'm an isolationist

Oh god...

 

[WordInterrupted]

I look at it this way; I would rather have my tax dollars spent keeping them out of the country protecting, rather than pay them to sit on their asses because they are on welfare and don't want to get a job. But that's my personal opinion. I'm an isolationist.

Welfare? This country hardly spends anything on welfare: it's less than one percent of the Federal budget. If you want to save tax dollars, it makes absolutely no sense to pay billions for border security to save pennies in welfare payments.

It's about the violence. We have enough violence of our own from citizens without them adding to it.

From the Dallas Federal Reserve study of border crime:

In the 1990s, while there was a large decline in property-related crime along the U.S.-Mexico border, violent crime rates began to converge to the national average. At the same time, legal and illegal immigration from Mexico surged and border enforcement rose to unprecedented levels. In this paper, we investigate the relationship between border county crime rates, immigration and enforcement since the early 1990s. We find that while the volume of illegal immigration is not related to changes in property-related crime, there is a significant positive correlation with the incidence of violent crime. This is most likely due to extensive smuggling activity along the border. Border enforcement meanwhile is significantly negatively related to crime rates. The bad news is that the deterrent effect of the border patrol diminishes over this time period, and the net impact of more enforcement on border crime since the late 1990s is zero.

http://www.dallasfed.org/research/papers/2003/wp0303.pdf

 

[The Question]

And hell, if they work harder then they deserve the fucking job more, to be honest.

No, they don't. If they do what it takes to become citizens, then -- and only then -- they deserve the opportunity to compete for the job.

 

[The Question]

In the 1990s, while there was a large decline in property-related crime along the U.S.-Mexico border, violent crime rates began to converge to the national average. At the same time, legal and illegal immigration from Mexico surged and border enforcement rose to unprecedented levels. In this paper, we investigate the relationship between border county crime rates, immigration and enforcement since the early 1990s. We find that while the volume of illegal immigration is not related to changes in property-related crime, there is a significant positive correlation with the incidence of violent crime. This is most likely due to extensive smuggling activity along the border. Border enforcement meanwhile is significantly negatively related to crime rates. The bad news is that the deterrent effect of the border patrol diminishes over this time period, and the net impact of more enforcement on border crime since the late 1990s is zero.

This ignores the fact that illegally entering and occupying this country is a crime. Every illegal entrant is a criminal.

 

[WordInterrupted]

If the criminal aspect is what bothers you, then abolish immigration quotas and let them come in legally. Then there's no crime.

 

[Mentalist]

No, they don't. If they do what it takes to become citizens, then -- and only then -- they deserve the opportunity to compete for the job.

And once again, if the average citizen was willing to SECURE there jobs, make themselves WORTHIT to employers then this problem would never arise. Work harder than hard and you will get what you want.

If you expect to be employed just because you're American then pedros gonna take your job!

 

[The Question]

No. You don't decrease the homicide rate by making murder legal, and you don't decrease the number of automobile thefts by legalizing automobile theft.

These people know there are laws, they choose to break those laws, and they are criminals. Period. Get over it.

 

[Mandi]

But if you did that, then our country would be overrun with them. Then our economy would fall, and we'd basically fall into third world country status. It may take years to happen, but eventually it would.

 

[The Question]

And once again, if the average citizen was willing to SECURE there jobs, make themselves WORTHIT to employers then this problem would never arise. Work harder than hard and you will get what you want.

If you expect to be employed just because you're American then pedros gonna take your job!

Wrong. That's like saying, "Oh, boo fucking hoo, somebody raped your wife! Guess ya should'a kept a better eye on her, HUH JACKASS! HAW HAW!"

No. It does not work that way.

 

[Mandi]

And once again, if the average citizen was willing to SECURE there jobs, make themselves WORTHIT to employers then this problem would never arise. Work harder than hard and you will get what you want.

If you expect to be employed just because you're American then pedros gonna take your job!

There is a problem with that. Take two men going for the same job. One white one illegal mexican. They both work equally as hard. The white man wants $8.00 an hour and the mexican will work for $3.00. Who do you think he's going to hire? The mexican, because he can save money on labor.

 

[The Question]

There is a problem with that. Take two men going for the same job. One white one illegal. They both work equally as hard. The white man wants $8.00 and hour and the mexican will work for $3.00. Who do you think he's going to hire? The mexican, because he can save money on labor.

And that depresses the local economy, because less of that employer's money is going back into the local economy.

 

[WordInterrupted]

But if you did that, then our country would be overrun with them. Then our economy would fall, and we'd basically fall into third world country status. It may take years to happen, but eventually it would.

What? Why would we become a third world country?

No. You don't decrease the homicide rate by making murder legal, and you don't decrease the number of automobile thefts by legalizing automobile theft.

These people know there are laws, they choose to break those laws, and they are criminals. Period. Get over it.

Murder isn't wrong because it's illegal, it's illegal because it's wrong. Same goes for immigration: you have to show why it's wrong before you can prove that is ought to be illegal.

 

[Mentalist]

Of course it does. And you should have kept a better eye on her, letting her walk through Compton at 3 in the morning, jeez.

Fact is Employers want the best value for money they can get. Its not even debatable that immigrants work thier jobs harder and more effeciently than their American counterparts. You have a burger joint? they are flipping double the amount, need a janitor the floor is spotless an hour earlier. Step up to the plate and take your jobs back by becoming more productive. Add minimum wage laws to stop cheap immigrant labour and woah.. lookie here.. Employers not so hot on taking Pedro on anymore.

 

[The Question]

Let me see if I can make this clear to you, you fucking dolt:

ILLEGALS are not IMMIGRATING. Immigration is legal. What they are doing is not legal.

And all of the different points that have been raised here, from depression of local economies to tax burdens on the legal population demonstrate why what these people are doing is wrong, and thus why it is illegal.

 

[WordInterrupted]

One white one illegal mexican.

So... legal=white? As I said, it's about racial politics.

 

[Mentalist]

There is a problem with that. Take two men going for the same job. One white one illegal mexican. They both work equally as hard. The white man wants $8.00 an hour and the mexican will work for $3.00. Who do you think he's going to hire? The mexican, because he can save money on labor.

You're pointing out exactly what I am saying. They are willing to work cheaper, you stop that malarky and you have solved the problem. Not adding 3000+ watchtowers and hiring countless border patrol guards.

 

[Mandi]

What? Why would we become a third world country?

Look at mexico, it's over populated, has a lack of job oppurtunities, the poverty level is up. Let them all in, it's going to happen just like it has there. A majority will apply for welfare, and never try to get a job. Thus draining the economy, and causing a depression. Then we'll have a second Great Depression. But probably won't be able to come out of it.

 

[The Question]

Of course it does. And you should have kept a better eye on her, letting her walk through Compton at 3 in the morning, jeez.

I'm frankly appalled that you can be so cold when shrugging off the suffering of fellow human beings.

Fact is Employers want the best value for money they can get.

That's no excuse for defending employers who break the law with their employment habits, any more than it is when defending them for unsafe environmental practices or substandard production practices that threaten consumers.

Its not even debatable that immigrants work thier jobs harder and more effeciently than their American counterparts. You have a burger joint? they are flipping double the amount, need a janitor the floor is spotless an hour earlier. Step up to the plate and take your jobs back by becoming more productive.

You're suggesting that competition in the work force is a good thing -- but illegals are not a legal work force.

Add minimum wage laws to stop cheap immigrant labour and woah.. lookie here.. Employers not so hot on taking Pedro on anymore.

Same thing if the employer loses out of its pocket what they cost the local economy.