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Donovan, think on this: whatever merit your words may have, it is drowned out by the deafening boom of self-righteousness. If you truly want to do good, remember that how you say something has a huge impact on whether others hear it.
 
Morrhigan said:
Donovan, think on this: whatever merit your words may have, it is drowned out by the deafening boom of self-righteousness. If you truly want to do good, remember that how you say something has a huge impact on whether others hear it.
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Excellent view, wouldn't have worked here. Why? Because a calm reasoned response was impossible due the the fact that

a) Laker Girl hasn't ever liked me, and

b) My original post was an unecessary explosion of anger


Different situations call for different measures. Laker Girl is so caught up in bitterness and hatred for her brother and his poor choices, that quietly pointing out the harm it will do the kids is no good. Only by making her equally angry at my words will the message have staying power. It's not self-righteousness, but it is a flagrant abuse of my knowledge of human nature. Anger is one of the most powerful emotions in the human psyche. It carries with it all sorts of motivation.

She will remember this exchange. And whether she hates me forever, or thanks me years from now, that in itself is enough.
 
Morrhigan said:
Oh, I see... so you think you're manipulating her for her own good.
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Nope, I'm manipulating her reactions to a given stimulus, by encouraging a preprogrammed response to the next occasion of an undesired behavior. A form of self-inflicted aversive conditioning, if you will.

Do you think it's likely she'll forget the exchange here any time soon, or is it more plausible she'll be angry for quite a while?

Do you think she'll involuntarily remember my words every time she tries to trashmouth her brother or the ex or the girlfriend or the town of Bumfuck egypt?

Now here's the $100,000 question: do you think, the next time Laker Girl catches herself trashmouthing her brother or the ex in front of the kids, that she will CONTINUE to do so just to spite me? Or will she pause long enough to stop herself?

Morrighan, it isn't about me, or Laker Girl. Never was. It isn't about being proven "right." It's about speaking up for those who may need it, when no one else seems willing or comfortable to do so. If that means I have to be the bad guy, so be it.
 
Our minds react in fairly predictable ways to given circumstances. Sorry if that offends some people, but there it is.
 
Here is some information on the subject.

Note the section that states similar emotions evoke memories received under previous emotions of the same type. Ergo, anger and frustration like the type a person might have while ranting would trigger memories of a related instance, such as an unpleasant conversation about the same topic.
 
Friday said:
Uh huh.

I'm going to be watching you, Donovan.

Count on it. ;)
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Just be glad I've chosen to use my powers for good. These are not the droids you're looking for...
 
Well researched. I would expect nothing less.

However, Donovan, you presume to know how LG acts in front of her niece and nephew. You have no frame of reference for this. Thus, your reasoning is based on an (for you) unknowable premise.

LOL, BTW...
 
Friday said:
Well researched. I would expect nothing less.

However, Donovan, you presume to know how LG acts in front of her niece and nephew. You have no frame of reference for this. Thus, your reasoning is based on an (for you) unknowable premise.

LOL, BTW...
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Not presumption, just weighing the probabilities with a highly educated guess based on multiple past experiences of a similar type. People who experience great resentment often feel the need to express it, and rarely stop to consider who's hearing it or how it's being received. It's entirely possible Laker Girl never realized what she has said within earshot of the kids, but I guarantee she will from this point on.

In other words, a duck is a duck is a duck. I may never have seen this particular duck quack, but I've seen a thousand OTHER ducks, and they all quacked, so the odds are strongly against this one learning to chirp.
 
Donovan said:
Not presumption, just weighing the probabilities with a highly educated guess based on multiple past experiences of a similar type. People who experience great resentment often feel the need to express it, and rarely stop to consider who's hearing it or how it's being received. It's entirely possible Laker Girl never realized what she has said within earshot of the kids, but I guarantee she will from this point on.

In other words, a duck is a duck is a duck. I may never have seen this particular duck quack, but I've seen a thousand OTHER ducks, and they all quacked, so the odds are strongly against this one learning to chirp.
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Hey, here's an idea -- shut the fuck up. Yeah, there's hard feelings there, it seems, but guess what? That's human.

And as previously pointed out, she's venting it here at TK, instead of keeping a lid on it until it fuckin' pops, maybe in front of the kids -- something that nobody, including LG, wants to have happen.

You don't wanna read the venting? Maybe express a little sympathy and a lot of pride for what she's accomplished despite the fact that she didn't have to? Fine -- then beat it, you inconsiderate sack of shit.
 
And Laker Girl, I'm damn proud of you. You didn't have to take on the responsibility, you've no doubt shouldered a lot of stress that didn't have your name on it in the process, and by all accounts you're doing a damn fine job. I know you're not looking to be rewarded for that, but you deserve to be.
 
So, let me ask a question here. If Dono used "probable or theoretical" questioning would that have put out some of the fires?

Meaning, if he had asked L_G in an open ended fashion as most of us who work in child development are trained too, would that have changed the whole context of this latter debate and brought the real issues to the fore front?

It seems that this would enable less finger pointing and more focus as well as positive re-enforcement for all parties involved.

Suggestions...


(and yea, i'm no stranger to my dick headed ness mayhap or not through out the thread, so i'll own up to that if it allows further discussion of the topic.)
 
I think Donovan's mistake came when he appeared to put on the defensive someone who is well liked, and who is going above and beyond in her family situation. Her defenders (me included) are not going to see anything beyond the good she is doing.

Donovan, you picked the wrong fight here.
 
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