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Being Non-PC in BDSM - No Safe-words

Friday said:
Without a safe word, what would make me trust you not to go too far? What would make me think you're not in it to inflict some permanent, long lasting damage?
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Have a look at this.

Now it sounds like SB has taken a Gorean approach to BDSM, which is exactly what my Mistress and I have.
 
But let me address one thing that bothers me about the Gorean mindset, and that is that:

1. One has to be submissive to be a slave, and
2. Submissiveness is a predominantly feminine attribute.

First, a Master/slave or Mistress/slave relationship isn't always so polarized as Dominant/submissive. Sometimes it's More Dominant/Dominant, or simply Dominant/Agreeable. Second, It takes quite a lot of strength for a man to submit, more so perhaps than for a woman to do so.
 
I read your article, TS.

It sounds like being a slave/submissive is essentially giving up your identity...who you truly are...in favor of being dominated by another.

In my eyes, that signifies a lack of inner strength and conviction. It takes more courage to continue to be who you are, than to mold yourself to someone else's parameters. That's the easy way out.
 
Well, dayum...

TS, how the hell did you do that?

I would swear you had access to my email account... ;)

You are a wise man. That's why I like ya. :)
 
Friday said:
I read your article, TS.

It sounds like being a slave/submissive is essentially giving up your identity...who you truly are...in favor of being dominated by another.

In my eyes, that signifies a lack of inner strength and conviction. It takes more courage to continue to be who you are, than to mold yourself to someone else's parameters. That's the easy way out.
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But this still stands, in the situation we are discussing.

To agree to be submissive is allowing someone else's identity to overshadow yours. Not a healthy mindset.
 
How is that different, really, from 'to love, honor and obey'? Except, of course, that a consensual slave actually means it when they say those things... :P
 
Sadistic Bastard said:
For one girl, a little rope and a nipple clamp can be devastating.

-SB
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I thought of you a month or so ago, I had downloaded what I thought was some sort of historical documentary about Pirates in LA and it turned out to be bondage. (yes people I still blush when I accidently see porn... you may mock me ;) ) The way the ropes were coiled around the young lady, smoothed, tightened, etc... was actually very artistic and sensual. I stopped watching and started blushing again when they started showing body parts.

;)
mm
 
missmanners said:
huh? You're kidding right? A person doesn't agree to be submissive, they either are or they arent. It's something hardwired.

;)
mm
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By agreeing to be submissive, I think I meant agreeing to be in a D/s relationship. One can be submissive, but choose to not be in such a relationship.
 
Shitty Dual said:
And yet everyone does it to some degree, every day.
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You do have a valid point. I'm submissive to my supervisor at work in that I sometimes carry out duties which I think are not correct. I swallow my instincts and knowledge in favor of hers, all to keep my job.

I really do sometimes feel like a whore.

However, I would not choose such a role in a romantic relationship. I've worked too hard to become the person I am, and to deny that in favor of someone else's power trip sounds too much like a betrayal of self.
 
The Saint said:
How is that different, really, from 'to love, honor and obey'? Except, of course, that a consensual slave actually means it when they say those things... :P
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"Obey" hasn't been a part of the contemporary wedding ceremony for quite some time, unless both parties agree it should be in there.

And if it is kept in there, both parties are agreeing to a power dynamic that works for them.

But I still don't understand willingly forsaking self in favor of someone else's dominant identity. It sounds like it's just feeding the other person's ego.
 
Friday said:
But I still don't understand willingly forsaking self in favor of someone else's dominant identity. It sounds like it's just feeding the other person's ego.
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Why don't you give an example of what you think is happening in that kind of relationship?

;)
mm
 
missmanners said:
Why don't you give an example of what you think is happening in that kind of relationship?

;)
mm
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Being dominated. Denying your wishes/identity for another.

If you've had enough of a particular sexual encounter, and you want to stop, SB outright said he wouldn't stop until HE thinks he's met your threshold. That's a power trip, plain and simple, and it takes away one's choices.

It's dehumanizing.

If you wish to go out somewhere, and your Dominant tells you not to, you are being controlled. I can't see where that is a healthy mindset.
 
Friday said:
Being dominated. Denying your wishes/identity for another.

If you've had enough of a particular sexual encounter, and you want to stop, SB outright said he wouldn't stop until HE thinks he's met your threshold. That's a power trip, plain and simple, and it takes away one's choices.

It's dehumanizing.

If you wish to go out somewhere, and your Dominant tells you not to, you are being controlled. I can't see where that is a healthy mindset.
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I think you are probably talking about women/men who aren't really submissive. Like I said, it's something thats hardwired. Don't confuse it with women who are doormats because they lack self esteme. Besides true Christian women are submissive.

;)
mm
 
missmanners said:
I think you are probably talking about women/men who aren't really submissive. Like I said, it's something thats hardwired. Don't confuse it with women who are doormats because they lack self esteme. Besides true Christian women are submissive.

;)
mm
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Women who are doormats because they lack self-esteem are usually submissive.

Hardwired submission is still submission...bending to someone else's will. That still seems like giving someone else's identity validity over yours, thereby making yourself second rate.

Considering yourself second rate to anyone constitutes low self esteem.

Therefore, even hard-wired submissives can consider themselves doormats, and have low self esteem.

True Christian women are submissive to God. I guess you have a point there. But even God allows for *free will*.
 
Friday said:
Women who are doormats because they lack self-esteem are usually submissive... etc
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I can answer this entire line of reasoning thus: All Ford Mustangs are automobiles; not all automobiles are Ford Mustangs. And that analogy applies even if we continue to dismiss, as you have been doing, the concept of consensual submission.

Let me clarify that concept, you don't seem to entirely acknowledge it and it goes to SB's original point as well. Genuine, meaningful submission isn't something that can or should happen in a scene. It takes time and evaluation of the parties involved, both of themselves and of each other. I've known my owner long enough, and seen Her responses to a large enough variety of circumstances, to trust Her completely.

That, to me, is what submission is -- it isn't a lack of self-esteem, and if you think it is in my case, then you don't know me one tenth as well as you ought to by now. It's a statement of faith and trust.
 
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