Being Non-PC in BDSM - No Safe-words

[The Question]

Oh, and on Norman -- SB skims it, but he's got it right. Norman was (is?) an absolutely abysmal writer, and a pure idiot besides.

 

[missmanners]

So after all of that hard work, why would either a sincere Dominant or a sincere submissive, when engaging in play with their partner, have any need for something as crude as a safe word?

How about unexpected physical distress like blurred vision, sudden numbness, sharp pain...


mm

 

[Mentalist]

That's my only concern as well. What if something unexpected happens that the other person has to communicate quickly?

Trust doesn't come in to play there. It's just a matter of necessity to stop "proceedings."

What happens then?

 

[The Question]

How about unexpected physical distress like blurred vision, sudden numbness, sharp pain...


mm

Betweeen committed and caring partners, those have an equal chance of occurring during vanilla activities, as well -- anyone here have a 'safe word' they use during vanilla sex?

 

[Sadistic Bastard]

That's my only concern as well. What if something unexpected happens that the other person has to communicate quickly?

Trust doesn't come in to play there. It's just a matter of necessity to stop "proceedings."

What happens then?

Very simple. It stops.

"MUSCLE CRAMP!" is perfectly acceptable for someone to say, and because there is none of this "safe word" silliness I take it seriously and can release her. I trust that she wants to be in that scene, and so any physical distress is going to be real and should be respected.

When doing a scene where the submissive is gagged or otherwise unable to speak, I give her a super-ball or other thing to hold in her hand. It's not a safe-word, it's just a way to let me know that she has an emergency. If she drops it, I un-gag her and find out what's going on.

Again, it's all a matter of degree. Since she is not allowed to say "no" in the first place (the negotiation on limits, if any, is done BEFORE the scene starts and is my responsibility, as the Dom, to clarify), any physical distress that I don't want her to be in in the first place is something I do want to know about.

Now if she's frightened, she may say so. If I've strapped her down to the table saw, then she's probably supposed to be frightened. Crying and begging is part of the scene. And she has to know who she is dealing with to trust that I won't throw the switch, otherwise she shouldn't be negotiating for a fear or even a "force" scene.

Of course, I just might throw the switch anyway (but she doesn't need to know that I opened the breaker a few hours before she arrived).

As I said, I'm not always PC. And some submissives find fear thrilling.

-SB

 

[The Watcher]

interesting thread. not into table saws or extreme pain or anything, but I am submissive by nature and wanted to respond to this part:

Why do some feel the need to be dominated?

For some people, it's when you feel the most safe.

 

[Friday]

Haven't abandoned this thread.

For teacher appreciation week, my wonderful students decided to give me a unique gift...the flu.

I am reading, and when I feel up to it, I'll post a thoughtful response.

 

[The Question]

Some of us, too, have things we just like. Can't explain 'em, don't feel the need, others could poke a million holes in any reasons why.

Why do so many guys seem to find girl-on-girl action appealing? There's one I don't get. A lot of guys see that and it's schaaa-WINGGGG!!! Me, i see that and I see not one but two women who are a) already otherwise occupied, and b) find the involvement of a man superfluous. What's the appeal? Beats me. Will I cut a fella down because he sees the spice where I don't? Nope.

 

[Sadistic Bastard]

Regarding "submissive Doormats": Obviously you don't know many submissvies.

There are Desperate women out there that use submission as a "hook" to get a date. Those are in the same group as our little "safe-word girls". The cast this hope out there that if they agree to do "anything" someone will value them.

The problem is that sex is a very common coin. It's not going to be valued unless there is more to it (emotional, intellectual, spiritual attachment). It's part of why sex-addiction is a trap just like a drug: you'll never find what you are looking for it it if sex is the end-all point. Such women are asking for abuse. I steer clear of them.

In order to submit, you need a sense of self-value. Submission is a DECISION, not a necessity. You have to posses something in order to give it away. Self-esteem is required to truly submit. "Doormats" make terrible submissives. A submissive needs to give more than sexual service, there has to be all of the other elements of a healthy relationship and attraction there too. Obedience means that there is a choice involved. Part of the enjoyment of bondage is both the restrictive aspects, but also the decision to cooperate as the Dominant removes options for movement. Each loop of rope is a restriction, a place she doesn't have to hold still anymore. She can relax into the bondage...but the decision to stay there was hers to begin with.

This is MUCH more empowering that sitting there, on her guard, waiting to say "Safe-Word!". It takes courage to submit. Courage and "doormat" aren't usually found in the same package.

And Regarding Corinthians, yes, women are to submit to their husbands. But if you read the rest of that chapter, Men need to be worthy of leading their wives, and willing to sacrifice for them. It's not one-way (and neither is D/s).
-SB

 

[Friday]

I feel badly that TS and SB feel that I'm judging them, or their choices. I am not. Both individuals earned my respect years ago.

I just can't get my mind around the fact of submission being an empowering choice. To me, that sounds like am oxymoron: empowering submission. Yes, one chooses to be submissive, but a choice is not empowering simply by being a choice.

Unfortunately, I cannot say anymore on this topic without hurting the feelings of someone I genuinely like, so I will stop. But thank you everyone for your input and honesty.

 

[Sadistic Bastard]

My Dear Miss Friday, I don't feel judged, this is TK and I am hardly fragile. Don't back off due to "feelings".

I believe that your viewpoint is well expressed, but I disagree with it. That hardly translates into dislike (quite the contrary, I LIKE people who can debate me...even submissives or frustrated feminists).

Regarding empowerment, however, consider this: Beyond the choice to submit, think about the statements TS made. Is it not empowering, validating, and a celebration of your desirability to be the focus of so much attention and thought in a lover? Believe me, I take a LOT of time and energy in considering how to train a particular woman (and each has been unique), and even more energy in evaluating and investigating who she is and what she will respond to (along with my own wants for her).
Is that not validating...and dare I say...romantic?
-SB

 

[missmanners]

I feel badly that TS and SB feel that I'm judging them, or their choices. I am not. Both individuals earned my respect years ago.

I just can't get my mind around the fact of submission being an empowering choice. To me, that sounds like am oxymoron: empowering submission. Yes, one chooses to be submissive, but a choice is not empowering simply by being a choice.

Unfortunately, I cannot say anymore on this topic without hurting the feelings of someone I genuinely like, so I will stop. But thank you everyone for your input and honesty.

Well dangit, I had the perfect troll all figured out for this one and you didn't take the bait!!! Dratdratdrat!

Is that not validating...and dare I say...romantic?
-SB

mm

 

[The Question]

I don't feel judged, either, merely not understood.

 

[missmanners]

I feel badly that TS and SB feel that I'm judging them, or their choices. I am not. Both individuals earned my respect years ago.

I just can't get my mind around the fact of submission being an empowering choice. To me, that sounds like am oxymoron: empowering submission. Yes, one chooses to be submissive, but a choice is not empowering simply by being a choice.

Unfortunately, I cannot say anymore on this topic without hurting the feelings of someone I genuinely like, so I will stop. But thank you everyone for your input and honesty.

OK, this is serious now,(and yes has nothing to do with BDSM) and since I used religion earlier I'll go back to it. What do you think of nuns? The choices they make, the fact they give up "self"...are they now second rate?


mm

 

[Friday]

My Dear Miss Friday, I don't feel judged, this is TK and I am hardly fragile. Don't back off due to "feelings".

I believe that your viewpoint is well expressed, but I disagree with it. That hardly translates into dislike (quite the contrary, I LIKE people who can debate me...even submissives or frustrated feminists).

Regarding empowerment, however, consider this: Beyond the choice to submit, think about the statements TS made. Is it not empowering, validating, and a celebration of your desirability to be the focus of so much attention and thought in a lover? Believe me, I take a LOT of time and energy in considering how to train a particular woman (and each has been unique), and even more energy in evaluating and investigating who she is and what she will respond to (along with my own wants for her).
Is that not validating...and dare I say...romantic?
-SB

Yes, SB, on the surface it sounds rather romantic.

However, doesn't that romance come with a price? Subservience, loss of will, pain, fear. You mentioned that even tho a sub might trust you to not flick that switch on the table saw, you might flick it anyway (after cutting off the power). How is going beyond a set boundary instilling faith and trust? Yes, I need to trust my significant other not to intentionally hurt me (physically or emotionally). But if she or he ever pulled a stunt like that, some of that trust would be shattered.

And, if you think about it, a mature "vanilla" relationship should encompass all those items you listed as being romantic and validating. Furthermore, how validating could these things be if your partner gives the same amount of intense attention to other women? I'd feel like, somehow, I'm not giving everything that needs to be given. I'd feel...inadequate.

Honestly, I find your lifestyle frightening. Giving up control, painful sex, being dominated...it all feels like a smokescreen to true intimacy.

 

[Friday]

I don't feel judged, either, merely not understood.

You helped me to think more logically, my friend. That wasn't easy. I have an open mind, and I'm listening.

 

[Friday]

OK, this is serious now,(and yes has nothing to do with BDSM) and since I used religion earlier I'll go back to it. What do you think of nuns? The choices they make, the fact they give up "self"...are they now second rate?


mm

I once considered being a nun when I was younger. Before I discovered my bisexual side. What a sexually frustrating nightmare *that* would have been.

Good question, mm. No, nuns are not second rate because they give up self, because they give up self to God. Whole different ballgame.

 

[The Question]

Yes, SB, on the surface it sounds rather romantic.

However, doesn't that romance come with a price?

What romance doesn't?

Subservience, loss of will, pain, fear.

Regarding subservience or loss of will, let me paraphrase something on that subject I read once. In every relationship, either one partner or both will attempt to dominate. Pick any relationship, take a close look and there that fact will be self-evident. The difference is that in a D/s relationship, which partner is in authority and which accepts that authority is established and accepted. There are no power struggles, no arguments over what the night on the town will consist of or over whose turn it is to do the dishes. Those things simply don't happen in a relationship where the lines of authority are agreed upon by both parties.

As far as pain goes, some people enjoy pain for the sake of extreme sensation. As far as fear goes, many people enjoy roller coasters, because... they're scary. Ever notice the "best ones" are the ones that look like they'd fling the passengers over a mountain range? Some people like pain. Way more people like scary.

 

[Sadistic Bastard]

Pain, for a Dominant, is a tool. A sensation. Just like I can give or withold pleasure, I can do similarly with pain. And one can build associations between the two as well.

One of the differences between the Sadist and a Dominant is the pain aspect. I've had submissives that ANY pain pulls them right out of "mode" and shatters the scene. Others need pain to move past guilt issues they have with their sexuality. It's all in the needs of the submissive (for me, others may need to inflict pain to enjoy a scene...shrug).

Now I've addressed pain, let's look at loss of will.

I've talked about the "freedom of chain or rope". Consider this, what takes more will? Being told "Hold this position" while you are touched, nibbled, teased, and brought to the edge of orgasm and held there for an extended time...or being tied up and the same sensual acts performed. It is an act of Will, a strong one, for a submissive to submit WITHOUT any physical restraint. I have heard it compared to a focused meditation, trying to maintain what she's been asked to do as opposed to just relaxing in the rope.

As I have said before: It isn't a demonstration of power to tie a woman to the bed-posts, Power is in ordering her to stay there with nothing more than a whisper and a look.

The fetish, Miss Friday, is Power.
-SB

 

[Friday]

What romance doesn't?

True enough...

Regarding subservience or loss of will, let me paraphrase something on that subject I read once. In every relationship, either one partner or both will attempt to dominate. Pick any relationship, take a close look and there that fact will be self-evident. The difference is that in a D/s relationship, which partner is in authority and which accepts that authority is established and accepted. There are no power struggles, no arguments over what the night on the town will consist of or over whose turn it is to do the dishes. Those things simply don't happen in a relationship where the lines of authority are agreed upon by both parties.

As far as pain goes, some people enjoy pain for the sake of extreme sensation. As far as fear goes, many people enjoy roller coasters, because... they're scary. Ever notice the "best ones" are the ones that look like they'd fling the passengers over a mountain range? Some people like pain. Way more people like scary.

I can kind of understand about the pain thing. I tried a gay friend's nipple clamps once. They hurt a little, but it was exciting at the same time. Then again, the pain was negligible. Anything more uncomfortable, for me, and it wouldn't have that tinge of pleasure. Odd, that.

Fear in an adult relationship? I don't think so. Not for me. I couldn't fear someone and feel safe with them simultaneously.

What if the submissive just isn't in the mood to do the dishes that night, or really wants to go out and see a movie his/her owner doesn't want to see, and is told that he/she can't go? What happens then? It doesn't sound like compromise comes into play at all.