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Star Trek Discovery

Yeah. Shame her character turned out to be an idiot.

I did like this week’s. It’s not really Star Trek and that can be repeated til the cows come home, but I do think it’s an interesting sci-fi adventure show. I’m curious to see where it’s all going and it holds my attention throughout, with the exception of boring Klingon mumble-ogues.

The effect for the ship jumping was very similar to a sci-fi short I watched recently. I’ll find the link and post it tomorrow. I hope they didn’t rip it off.

Nice to see Captain Georgiou again. Shame she got eaten. Grim.
 
Fuddlemiff said:
Nice to see Captain Georgiou again. Shame she got eaten. Grim.
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Weird that it took six months for the hologram to be delivered to Michael though. Or do they just not deliver to prisoners? (And was that telescope on the Shenzhou? Did they go and pick that up but leave the rest of the ship floating there with the Klingons?)
 
I still don't like these weird Klingons, but they seemed a bit better this time. They just aren't anything like Klingons.
 
I thought the one of the Shinzou was longer?

Plus I like the way they put the word telescope next to it, in case star trek fans were too thick to work out what it was.

Did I call the ship having replicators here? I did somewhere.
 
CaptainWacky said:
Weird that it took six months for the hologram to be delivered to Michael though. Or do they just not deliver to prisoners? (And was that telescope on the Shenzhou? Did they go and pick that up but leave the rest of the ship floating there with the Klingons?)
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It could have taken a while for the will to be settled.
 
CaptainWacky said:
Weird that it took six months for the hologram to be delivered to Michael though. Or do they just not deliver to prisoners? (And was that telescope on the Shenzhou? Did they go and pick that up but leave the rest of the ship floating there with the Klingons?)
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I thought the same about the telescope, but that would’ve been way too big a plot hole to have got by, and as Whisky says the one on the ship was probably thinner.
 
I still can't get past them always calling her a mutineer, or that the writers built the whole thing around her being a mutineer, when she's not remotely a mutineer. A mutiny is a conspiracy involving two or more people. If there aren't two or more people, prosecutors are looking for a different set of charges.
 
There's a lot of things I'm willing to suspend my disbelief about when I watch Star Trek. Universal translators, mushroom warp drive, two aliens fucking and making a baby.

One thing I can't accept, though? The idea that the legal definition of mutiny might have shifted over three hundred years and the integration of US law into United Earth law, and then United Earth law into Federation law.
 
SAUSAGEMAN said:
There's a lot of things I'm willing to suspend my disbelief about when I watch Star Trek. Universal translators, mushroom warp drive, two aliens fucking and making a baby.

One thing I can't accept, though? The idea that the legal definition of mutiny might have shifted over three hundred years and the integration of US law into United Earth law, and then United Earth law into Federation law.
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It's not that. It's that mutiny is a particularly heinous crime whose nature is well understood and well documented. Disobeying an order is not mutiny. People disobey orders quite often. Disobeying a direct order is more serious crime which can get you two years. But the order has to be a direct order, and nothing the Captain said remotely met the legal definition of a direct order. If I'm the lawyer my client doesn't serve a day on the lesser charge.

Mutiny is a conspiracy because it has to be a conspiracy of two or more persons. A mutiny of one doesn't even make sense in any reality. Mutiny is the overthrow of the legal chain of command, such as on a ship at sea. One person cannot do that. First officer screams "I'm taking over this ship!" Captain says "No you're not." Helmsman asks "Are you on drugs?" Surface warfare officer says "Is that a frog in your pocket?" Air boss says "You've got some mayo on your chin. No, to the right."

Nobody obeys the first officer because she doesn't have any allies engaged in a conspiracy to take control of the ship. So everyone is against her. A ship or other military unit cannot be run by one person without the consent of other parties. A mutiny can only happen when disgruntled parties get together and formulate a plan to take out the normal command chain in a rebellion against the established authority. One person cannot do this because if everyone stays loyal to the established authority, nobody will obey the commands of the usurping authority. In fact, the usurping authority will get a beat down, be arrested, and be thrown in the brig or stockade because she has no allies. Not one. So all the attempt can legally result in is charges of insubordination, disobedience, or assaulting a superior officer because the crew did not mutiny.

Note that mutiny requires a crew. A crew that includes a subcrew of mutineers. without which mutiny cannot happen because mutiny is a collective crime like lynching or rioting. You can be the only person charged and convicted of lynching or rioting, but you cannot be the only participant. A lynching by one isn't a lynching, it's a murder. A riot of one isn't a riot, it's disorderly conduct and property destruction. A mutiny is like those crimes. It only exists in the plural, not the singular. It is a conspiracy by two or more persons. No matter how brilliant or how evil, one person cannot mutiny without others.

Learn what words mean. Forward you gained knowledge to whoever is writing the show

Wait, that won't help because they've already screwed the pooch by basing the show on something that makes absolutely no sense to anyone who knows anything.
 
Maybe she was charged with attempted mutiny and then people just shorten it to mutineer? I DON'T KNOW.
 
But she never tried to recruit anybody, nor did she inform another person of what she intended. She also wasn't trying to overthrow the ship's lawful chain of command. To do that she'd have had to permanently incapacitate or imprison the captain. What she basically did was say "Over there! Squirrel!" and try to fire a shot at the enemy when the captain was momentarily distracted. He she been the weapons officer, she'd have just fired without orders and said "Oopsie! I guess I got a little nervous there."
 
I should probably add that mutiny is like what was depicted in <i>Mutiny on the Bounty</i> or <i>The Caine Mutiny</i>. It's not an act of simple betrayal, disobedience, or taking unauthorized actions, it's an open rebellion of the crew. In <i>Mutiny on the Bounty</i>, Fletcher Christian led a rebellion, seized control of the ship, and put Captain Bligh and those still loyal to him into an open boat and set them adrift. They then stole the HMS Bounty, sailed it to Pitcairn Island, abandoned it, and set it on fire. In <i>The Caine Mutiny</i> several of the officers and much of the crew thought Captain Queeg was paranoid and mentally unstable, and after a long train of the captain's abuses and other behaviors removed him from command. Captain Queeg charged them with mutiny. The other officers had taken over his ship and the crew obeyed their commands, not the captain's. However, at trial the captain revealed that he was a paranoid nut case and that their removal of him as being medically unfit for duty was correct.

Then there's the Potemkin Mutiny, in which the crew of the Russian battleship Potemkin, fed up with rotten food and harsh treatment, rebelled in 1905, They killed about half the ship's crew, and then sailing on for over a week because the crews of other Russian ships refused to fire on them, finding the rebellion justified. They laid the groundwork for the Bolshevik Revolution nine years later.

There's the famous 1918 Kiel Mutiny in which German sailors refused to sail out to fight the British fleet. The mutiny spread like wildfire and toppled the Kaiser.

Pretty much the entire Indian Navy mutinied against the British a few years before independence but Gandhi talked them down.

Other mutinies involve entire crews and sometimes entire navies rebelling over pay or harsh treatment, and some mutinies were by slaves on slave ships.

What happened when facing the Klingon ship isn't in the same legal universe as mutiny. I doubt there's a single case of mutiny in which the participants were wanting to get in to combat instead of avoid it. If that happened the person in trouble would be their lawful commander who failed to restrain his over-zealous hot-blooded men who grew sick of his cowardice and indecision.
 
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