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Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford Gunned down at Grocery Store

Love Child said:
A man just got shot recently in Seattle, walked in front of a police car, he was carrying a knife, and a wood block. The guy was hard of hearing, the officer asked him to put down the knife, he didn't and the officer shot him. Dead.
The guy might have also been inebriated, there is a dash cam vid of it, not the shooting tho.

Shooting a few "innocent" people could cause even further violence and outrage.

Or in this case, a drum circle outside of the courthouse.
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Exactly. If you want to start an armed revolution, implement Consumer's suggestion. We still have enough "Don't Tread on Me" left in us as a people to not stand for it.
 
So his family apologised on his behalf....

hmmm nice n all, but do you think apologising on his behalf over the last 22 years contributed some to him thinking it to be cool to go shoot pples coz he felt like it?
 
Blindgroping said:
What would you all say about a culture that willingly creates the environment that results in criminals?
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Conspiracy theorists

Prisions

The ghetto

It cannot be used as an excuse. Tons of people do shit, not because of the fucking culture or environment they are in. Tons of people don't do shit that were raised in terrible conditions.
We all have choices.
Maybe that lady made a choice to go to the supermarket and it had consequences. We all have made stupid choices in our lives that have caused us to be hurt. It happens.
It still doesn't absolve the shooter or the criminal.
 
Further reporting seems to indicate this guy was planning something for a while. They found stuff in his safe that showed he had attended Gifford public functions before, even had a letter from her thanking him for his interest and participation. Also, the guy was physically kicked out of COMMUNITY college for being too unstable and was told he couldn't come back until he had a note saying he was not a danger to anyone. A couple points come to mind in reading this thread:

1. Sun demonstrates two points of view that ALL Americans should consider strongly. First, that our rhetoric has gotten out of control and our politicians seem to have forgotten they are members of this country. The amount of hatred and bile spewed in the last decade by both sides makes me hide on internet message boards for civilized discourse, and THAT is fucked up. Second, that Sun's misguided perception of the USA, echoed in slightly less venomous tone by Yub, IS HOW MUCH OF THE WORLD SEES US. This should be cause for great concern, as many Americans labor under the state-sponsored myth that we are the World's cowboy sheriff. Might be time to take that hat off for a while.

2. This guy was too mentally fucked up to be allowed at community college. Do you know how fucked up you have to be to get kicked out of COMMUNITY college?

3. Not that this couldn't happen anywhere in these times, but I've been to Arizona. Arizona is to sane and rational as Mel Gibson is to synogogues and women's liberation. They GROW them crazy out there. The desert sun bakes all their brains out or something. Not coincidentally I have the same theory about arabs and Israelis and a great many Australians. Basically, everybody's crazy but me.
 
what can i say, I grew up with the USA being the poster child for failure; influences & all that.
 
While I agree with most of what Dono said, WTF was venomous at all about the posts authoured by me and SuN? And why is Mirah negging for it? I don't get it.

OK Sun's were rough around the edges...but we're Australian.



Palin's all but put guns in the hands of the fringe dwellers with her map and her crazy talk.

FOX news is a right wing propaganda machine and it throws unsubstantiated rumours out as fact, only to have those same rumours rubber stamped as "fact" by satellite radio shows: Beck can spout crap his radio show, Hannity backs him up. People who are right wing and refuse to balance out what they see and hear due to left wing bias, real or imagined from other news sources, get told lies and swallow it as fact.

Add to this the depression the US is suffering. I wondering why the US hasn't melted down yet. I'm honestly expecting riots or something very soon, "the South will rise again" or some other viciousness....
 
Americans & their cotton wool......poor darlings...

NOT!!
Have a tissue, clean urself up & get the fuck back out there with a damn smile on ur face & work what ur mother gave u!

No wonder UK & USA like to fuck each other, both are winging cry babies.
have another pity party why doncha!


Btw i totally agree with ur predictions Yub....shits going down there on a whole new level, none has seen the likes of; mostly because of the enormity...giants fall hard & the earth is gonna shake ;)
 
Yub said:
While I agree with most of what Dono said, WTF was venomous at all about the posts authoured by me and SuN? And why is Mirah negging for it? I don't get it.

OK Sun's were rough around the edges...but we're Australian.



Palin's all but put guns in the hands of the fringe dwellers with her map and her crazy talk.

FOX news is a right wing propaganda machine and it throws unsubstantiated rumours out as fact, only to have those same rumours rubber stamped as "fact" by satellite radio shows: Beck can spout crap his radio show, Hannity backs him up. People who are right wing and refuse to balance out what they see and hear due to left wing bias, real or imagined from other news sources, get told lies and swallow it as fact.

Add to this the depression the US is suffering. I wondering why the US hasn't melted down yet. I'm honestly expecting riots or something very soon, "the South will rise again" or some other viciousness....
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I didn't disagree necessarily with what was posted, just Sun's earliest posts had kind of a "Haha, got what was coming to ya" feel. That was what I was talking about. The unfortunate side effect of the witless vitriol you just outlined is that people tend to get lumped in by category, so "Congressperson A is a Democrat, I hate Democrats, therefore I must hate person A." Fact is, we've done a hell of a lot of damage to ourselves as a country, we've created the dragon that's now eating us alive, and whether or not we come out of this unscarred remains to be seen. But as we're being chewed up it's still kinda tough to hear told-ya-so's from the peanut gallery. The self-inflicted perception of my countrymen as gun-toting cowboys intent on dominating the world stings a little...
 
I think the rhetoric attack should be upped on Palin. She's all defensive about it. Time to give her a taste of her own hateful medicine.

I'm glad of this actually. When the election rhetoric starts up again, she'll need bigger baggage than she carried around on her federally funded shopping sprees during the campaign.

That bitch is finished in American politics, diva or not.
 
I believe that a "street incident" like a police shooting and what we do with this assassin (who is in custody and breathing) are completely different issues.

Police will make mistakes. Hell, in that shoot-no-shoot training I went through one of the simulations is a guy shambles up to you, doesn't respond to commands, and when you finally draw on him he whips his hands behind him.
Everyone shoots him.
However he was reaching back to get his wallet that has a message in it that says "I am deaf and unable to speak". That is an ACCIDENT. That is a police training matter. And yes, the police are going to shoot people who are acting in what the police perceive as a threatening matter no matter why they are acting that way.

However, I thought this discussion was about our legal system and what we do with the insane after they do great harm (I'd say shooting 17 people and killing six of them is "great harm", lets forget the political aspect for a moment). Vengeance vs. justice, capitol punishment or lifetime incarceration?

Don't muddy the waters, people.
 
There will always be examples of situations like that and those instances are RARE.

One should not make General policy on the few rare examples.
 
Consumer said:
I believe that a "street incident" like a police shooting and what we do with this assassin (who is in custody and breathing) are completely different issues.

Police will make mistakes. Hell, in that shoot-no-shoot training I went through one of the simulations is a guy shambles up to you, doesn't respond to commands, and when you finally draw on him he whips his hands behind him.
Everyone shoots him.
However he was reaching back to get his wallet that has a message in it that says "I am deaf and unable to speak". That is an ACCIDENT. That is a police training matter. And yes, the police are going to shoot people who are acting in what the police perceive as a threatening matter no matter why they are acting that way.

However, I thought this discussion was about our legal system and what we do with the insane after they do great harm (I'd say shooting 17 people and killing six of them is "great harm", lets forget the political aspect for a moment). Vengeance vs. justice, capitol punishment or lifetime incarceration?

Don't muddy the waters, people.
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I think that's the distraction, truth be told. It is a political action. he's not causal, just collateral. People like Palin KNOW this.
 
Blindgroping said:
There will always be examples of situations like that and those instances are RARE.

One should not make General policy on the few rare examples.
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I don't agree. General policy should be made on the norm with flexiblility to handle the rare.
 
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